LoginRegister Search
Starting from scratch again, What would you do?
Last Post 18 Feb 2009 11:17 AM bylwg. 84 Replies.
Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 1 of 512345 > >>
AuthorMessages
Todd EliasonUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:3515

--
03 Sep 2007 10:24 PM  

So I am in the unique position where I am starting from scratch with a mostly stock RRC (other than the OME suspension) and having to start all over buying accessories.  Rather than put out an all encompassing list, I'll tackle a chunk at a time to keep focus.

First question.  Has anyone looked into the new Warn Winches with integrated air compressor?  They seem to put out double the air of the new ARB compressor, and can work with lockers.  Bit expensive, but maybe worth it if not having to find a home for the ARB, and faster air ups...  And a decent winch to boot...   ANy other winches you'd reccomend?

Thoughts, Gestures?

Andy BerglundUser is Offline
Tacoma, WA
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:3453

--
03 Sep 2007 11:10 PM  
i have some gestures, but we'll save the shocker for later.

i don't know a lot about the warn winch but it seems kinda hokey. and risky, putting that compressor at the very front of your truck. that's a lot of exposure to the elements. for my locker i'm using a home-built CO2 tank and i love it. totally silent and immensely awesome. also, you can make it fully pneumatic-so electronics at all. having the RRC's classic dash i think that you can cleanly install some pneumatic switches that don't look out of place.

after seeing everyone's rooftop tents, i suggest you look into one of those, too ;) at the risk of sounding like a smartass, do what worked on the '88 and leave the rest off. you said you wanted to keep it rover so the HD stuff from rovertracks is pretty sweet. lifetime warranty.

i'm sure isaac will have more ideas. :D

a
Craig MillerUser is Offline
Posts:11799

--
04 Sep 2007 08:06 AM  
Todd,

Since this is going to be an "expedition" vehicle and not a trail rig why not go with dual true tracs instead? Simpler, more reliable, and less components scattered around your truck. Should still provide you with enough extra traction tio negotiate most obstacles safely. I love ARB air lockers as I enjoy the additional control that comes with the selectability, but there is something to be said for simplicity in a vehicle that may find itself hundreds of miles of trail away from the closest tow truck.

For airing up you could always re-use the factory air tank under the truck. That keeps the cargo area open for gear, and the engine area open for other under the hood additions (dual batteries, relay blocks, heat exchangers, etc).

Craig


Todd EliasonUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:3515

--
04 Sep 2007 11:10 AM  
I am a little concerned about mechanical lockers due to the fact that they can suprise you when they kick in. I like the idea of running open until I need it. However, I am not the smartest cookie in the jar and am open to opinions. Ball park, what do the truetraks run, if they are close to the ARB's $$ wise, I'd probably go with what I know. I will have on-board air in one form or another, and will probably utilize the factory tank (it was removed but I have another that I never mounted to the 88).

Are the TT's less prone to failure than the ARB's? I have had one fail, and I know Scott had one fail as well.
Michael KronmalUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:421

--
04 Sep 2007 12:44 PM  
I would highly recommend trutrac in the front and detroit in the rear. They both are in the TT's are $432 and DT's are $512 each. http://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/ is the best source I found.
Craig MillerUser is Offline
Posts:11799

--
04 Sep 2007 01:18 PM  
I can understand that. If you have air onboard anyway, it's not much more to run a locker. Keeping systems independant of each other does improve reliability though since you have less opportunities for a single point of failure causing multiple systems to be broken. I'm not sure how reliable a TT is but assumed that it was more robust than an air locker due to it's simplicity. Rick might have a better idea.

I believe that the true tracs are a gear driven LSD, so I don't *think* they suddenly pop in. Isn't it the Detroits that do that?
Britt PinsonUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts:601

--
04 Sep 2007 01:29 PM  
I have the Detroit locker in the rear and have had no issues or surprises when it engages or disengages. In fact, I am considering installing one in the front. Not the best solution for street use, but my Disco only spends roughly 20% of its time on pavement.

Britt
Andy BerglundUser is Offline
Tacoma, WA
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:3453

--
04 Sep 2007 01:31 PM  
will you run the LT part time or some such? i've heard of others wheelers who have part time 4WD trucks running detroits up from with success.

andy
Todd EliasonUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:3515

--
04 Sep 2007 02:19 PM  
Posted By Britt Pinson on 09/04/2007 1:29 PM
I have the Detroit locker in the rear and have had no issues or surprises when it engages or disengages. In fact, I am considering installing one in the front. Not the best solution for street use, but my Disco only spends roughly 20% of its time on pavement.

Britt

 

Good to know Britt,  I thought you were the one saying they suprised you on occasion when we were sitting at the picnic table wth Dan.  Maybe that is a good option.  You have the ones with a softer lock don't you?  I think that was what Dan was saying...   Maybe I'll just do a selectable locker up front and run the TT or Detroit in the rear.  Ahh,  more to research...

Britt PinsonUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts:601

--
04 Sep 2007 02:38 PM  

Actually, you can tell that it is there on the freeway (understeer on turn in, oversteer when it unlocks)but not objectionable and yes it is the soft locker.
I was just baiting for some one to pitch me flack about running one in front.

Hmmm... forgot this site is full of nice people, anywhere else and I'd have been burned at the stake.


I like that it doesn't require any input from me, if it did it wouldn't work nearly as well.

Britt

Tony SimsUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:1231

--
04 Sep 2007 02:40 PM  

Britt, unless you are modding the T-case to be part-time 4WD, the idea of a locked front on pavement seems a bit shaky.

Just my humble O.

 

Edit:  Didn't see your second post until now...

 

Michael KronmalUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:421

--
04 Sep 2007 02:43 PM  

Todd,

 

I would not hesitate to have the TT up front and the DT in the rear.  The TT is very well behaved and also helps you to track straight if you have any lift.

Todd EliasonUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:3515

--
04 Sep 2007 02:50 PM  
Well this is good. I am actually thinking more seriously about the TT in the rear as I have heard it is less noticable than I originally thought, and nearly as strong as the Detroit. Talked to a few folks and they thought it was a good setup.

What about the TT on the front? Does anyone have opinions on it? It will be used as a daily driver so keep that in mind.

Todd EliasonUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:3515

--
04 Sep 2007 03:01 PM  
Posted By Michael Kronmal on 09/04/2007 2:43 PM

Todd,

 

I would not hesitate to have the TT up front and the DT in the rear.  The TT is very well behaved and also helps you to track straight if you have any lift.



So is there a benefit of running the TT up front and Detroit rear as opposed to both TT?  Keith at RoverTracks mentioned that you get more traction having one up front than one both front and back.  Is this alleviated by having a different manufacturer in the back?  Excuse my ignorance, but this is really interesting. 

For budgetary purposes, I am thinking of doing the front first. and relying on the RRC's ETC in the back for the time being.  I really want to focus on doing the RoverTracks front axles and CV's first since my current ones are high mileage and more likely to fail, and it is harder to do the job down the road as the steering knukles need to be removed as well.  When in there, it would be nice to do the locker as well and get it done once.

Later, I can come back and do the rear.   Am I Smokin something?  :)

Really appreciate the help guys!

Michael KronmalUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:421

--
04 Sep 2007 03:27 PM  

Well, they are both made by the same company now, but are VERY different technologies.  The DT is a great locker, however, it is not suitable for the front in 4x4 situations at "normal" speeds.  With Landy's, we mostly are always driving the front axle, so DT's are out in the front. The simplified description is that the TT is a limited slip differential, so is not always locked; the DT is always locked, except during cornering.   My brief description on them follows.

The TT is great in the front, as its designed to be usable there, and has the added benefit of causing less wander while driving at high speeds.  The TT is a worm-gear-based torque-biasing limited slip differential. It basically applies 80% of the power to the wheel with the most traction.

The DT is an automatic locking differential.  It delivers power to both wheels, regardless of traction.  It unlocks when cornering to permit the required difference in wheel speed to avoid "hopping".  However, at no time will a wheel be permitted to spin slower then the differential carrier.

Todd EliasonUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:3515

--
04 Sep 2007 03:36 PM  
Very helpful Michael, Thank you!
Mike RuppUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:1354

--
04 Sep 2007 03:48 PM  

I'll play the devil's advocate regarding the TT. I've had the DT/TT setup for about 5 years and have run it in just about every condition: slickrock, northwest mud, midwest mud, etc. It is a good compromise between having a locker and being open. One of the gripes I have is that it biases torque side to side when there is a change in throttle, e.g. when you are in a turn and lift off or step on the gas. The steering wheel wants to jump a little. Its not terrible, but its a negative.

Also, just keep in mind that it doesn't fully lock and requires left foot braking to get it to drive both wheels if you lift a tire.

I'm not sure about how a TT would work in only the front of a RR. I know of someone who has a RR with the borg warner transfer case that has a TT just in the rear. It didn't work that well. Somehow it would cause the center diff to slip and would one leg it in the front in certain situations.

Rick LindgrenUser is Offline
Power User
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts:986

--
04 Sep 2007 04:04 PM  
Todd, I have TT's front and rear. I like that setup. It has been good to me other than all my axle breakage. Combined with Traction Control, a TT is very good. They engage quickly and I receive great traction. How great? I can't quantify it or say it is better/worse than a DT but I have had numerous people tell me how suprised they were that I was able to get into places/over things that they didn't think I had a snowball's chance in hell of doing.

As for strength, the TT is metallurgically stronger than a DT. This is a side effect of the way the diff is designed. The worm gears in the TT will press outward against their own housing to bias the torque to the other wheel. Due to this, the gears and housing are stronger than a DT since it doesn't get subjected to that type of pressure. I can personally vouch for the fact that my front TT has survived three failures under load (both front CVs and one snapped axle). I can also vouch for the fact that my rear TT got me out of all three places and back home again. The winch helped on the last one because of all the mudholes, fallen trees and boulders that I happened to be sitting in the middle of. :)

Dual TTs are good, so is a TT/DT mix. Just depends on how you plan to use the rig.

Rick
Rick LindgrenUser is Offline
Power User
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts:986

--
04 Sep 2007 04:06 PM  
Mike brings up a good point about the TT and getting it to engage. I've never had that problem because my Traction Control provides just enough action on the brakes to engage the TT very quickly.

Rick
Michael KronmalUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:421

--
04 Sep 2007 04:13 PM  
The TT issue on engaging is when you are trying to "lock" from a stop. In other words, if your rear axle and one front wheel was off the ground you would be stuck. This is the extreme. If the vehicle has forward speed, the TT should do its thing. With a locker in thh rear and the center diff lock engaged, that should be the norm, rather then the exception.

Knowing that you may have to use the brake to fool it into locking up is definitely a user responsibility.
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 1 of 512345 > >>


Active Forums 4.1
NOT LICENSED FOR PRODUCTION USE
www.activemodules.com
Copyright (C) 2010 Northwest Overland Society, LLC   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement