Ben Bailey
Veteran Member
Posts:2561
 | | 09 Feb 2009 12:20 PM |
| I'm looking to put my first lift on a DII -- It's a 2004. Now, I could just go with OME and I'd probably be OK. This will be a daily driver for family, and my off-roading is mainly light to medium multi-day stuff... However, there are two reasons I'm questioning OME springs: - They have always started sagging, especially in the rear.
- I want to run stock, but I will be towing a trailer and gear around, plus, I'll eventually put bumpers and other gear on -- 'm worried about getting springs that are just too stiff for daily driving, or too soft for loading down.
The other thing is, I really don't want to have to deal with vibes or other things, so I want to keep it at 2-2.5" with or without a load. Am I dreaming? Is this possible? Can I actually get and keep 2" of lift, not more, not less, even if I put bumpers and stuff on later? Will RTE actually fit the bill? Or should I just go with OME and expect to change them out in a few years when the truck is 500 lbs heavier? |
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Larry Grubbs
Advanced Member
Posts:576
| | 09 Feb 2009 12:36 PM |
| Your not dreaming. First off, put down the Discoweb;)
I am running the HD OME stuff with Medium Duty shocks on my truck. It rides like a dream. With any spring they will wear out eventually. I actually replaced the Medium Duty Springs on my truck last summer because they were sagging. Had them for about 4 years. Even stock springs sag after about 4 years or so of use.
FWIW, I have ACE on my truck. The truck rides really well, no vibes at any speed and handles very well and with my springs I've got about 2" of lift |
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Mike Rupp
Veteran Member
Posts:1354
| | 09 Feb 2009 12:38 PM |
| Ben, first off, you probably have had a unique experience with OME springs. I've had the same set of 762s in the rear of my Disco since 2000. I haven't measured them recently, but they are still holding up quite well.
The other thing is that the D2s will be vibe free to about a 3" lift. With the rear watts linkage / radius arm configuration in the rear, the 3" lift doesn't hurt the driveline angles the same way as on a D1. I installed a ~3" lift on Scott Sayes' D2 and it still had no vibes. After he installed a RTE rear bumper and the rear dropped by a .5" or so and we added some 1" spacers to compensate, it still was vibe free.
If you are concerned with the OME springs, I'd just get a 2" set of springs from RTE which should net out 2" or so of lift after bumpers, etc. It seems that only when 3" RTE springs are installed on a D2 is when driveline issues come into play. |
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Ben Bailey
Veteran Member
Posts:2561
| | 09 Feb 2009 12:51 PM |
| Cool, this is the type of feedback I'm looking for. I'm also wondering about the drive shafts. The front has the double joint at the tcase, but it is the unserviceable kind. The rear is the rotoflex. I can't remember if it is like this for earlier DII's.
Can I assume the HD OME's have given you around 2.5"?
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Craig Miller
Posts:11799
| | 09 Feb 2009 02:05 PM |
| The driveshafts are fine. When your rotoflex starts going in the rear you can either just replace it or upgrade it then.
An alternative to the puck to get "just a little" bit of lift is to swap in D1 spring perches. Bolt in swap, that will net 1/2" of lift.
Craig |
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Ben Bailey
Veteran Member
Posts:2561
| | 09 Feb 2009 02:42 PM |
| Cool.
I've hinted at this along the way. But we've basically made our decision: We are going to get rid of the BMW and the DI. We are going to keep the '04 and buy a later model BMW -- just two cars. Why? Why not keep the XD? - It's always struck me as too flashy for my style, and I don't off-road that much, I really want to focus on overland.
- Having the two "older" cars is fun, but I don't have the time to put into them.
- The DII has the 4.6, allows us to tow our camper trailer, is more comfortable for family, and it has the seven seats for our kids' friends to ride along.
- The DII is still under it's original warranty with only 64k on it.
- Both my wife and I really want a D110, so we are keeping our eyes open for an import. If we find one, we will be putting a 200/300 Tdi in it. The DII will help to fund the purchase when we find one. In the mean time, we are actually saving money for a D110.
Anyway, that's where we are headed. The DII will be my overland vehicle, and I plan to put about $1000.00 worth of upgrades on it every year. So thanks for the input! |
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Larry Grubbs
Advanced Member
Posts:576
| | 09 Feb 2009 04:07 PM |
| Posted By Ben Bailey on 02/09/2009 12:51 PM
Cool, this is the type of feedback I'm looking for. I'm also wondering about the drive shafts. The front has the double joint at the tcase, but it is the unserviceable kind. The rear is the rotoflex. I can't remember if it is like this for earlier DII's.
Can I assume the HD OME's have given you around 2.5"? I converted my DII rotoflex to a DI standard U-jointed driveshaft. Just not a fan of the rotoflex, it's personal. I would guess you might get 2.5" with the HD OME's but probably closer to 2". Really depends on how much junk you have hanging off your truck. I've got front bumper, winch, sliders, rear bumper and an SD rack. Probably 400-500 lbs of stuff on a good day. I think my truck weighs about 6200lbs with me and a little gear in it. Probably closer to 6500 fully laden. BTW, I think your reasoning is pretty spot on regarding the older vehicles. They are fun, but you either need the time or money to keep them in good shape. |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11799
| | 09 Feb 2009 05:48 PM |
| I got 1.5" from my OME HD springs before switching to RTE 3" springs.
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Ben Bailey
Veteran Member
Posts:2561
| | 09 Feb 2009 08:02 PM |
| What did you have on the truck at the time, Craig? |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11799
| | 09 Feb 2009 08:24 PM |
| Accessories? Bumpers, sliders, winch.
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Max Chapman
Basic Member
Posts:214
| | 10 Feb 2009 09:38 AM |
| I'm sorta going through he same thing right now. I have a new RTE bumper wit an OME medium duty 1.5 inch, and it's sagged dramatically. I want to go with something stronger to support more goodies. I also want to increase my tires size to 285-75-16. Anyhow, at the time I got my 2"(1.5") I didn't really understand all the options, so I wish I would have gone another route.
FWIW, GBR also sells now a true OME 3", 747 & 748. It was designed for a DI is fine for a DII. The only issue is the long travel OME shocks are for a DI only. Bill at GBR is still looking into the new shock that is supposedly coming for the DII. I don’t think it is as aggressive as RTE on height though, 3.5"-4". Bill mentioned the front 747 was just under 3". The other option might be the 751-753 which is sorta a hack 3", more like 2.5, but I "think" you can put an extra spring isolator on the bottom for another 10mm, or aprox .39 inches, but either way just less than 3", requiring only extended brake lines and abs lines.
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Mike Rupp
Veteran Member
Posts:1354
| | 10 Feb 2009 09:49 AM |
| Max, when you say "sagged" did you intend to mean compress? Sagging is when the springs actually sag over time, i.e. with no additional weight the springs settle and lose some of the lift over time. |
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Max Chapman
Basic Member
Posts:214
| | 10 Feb 2009 09:53 AM |
| Sorry, didn't use the right word, yes compress. Either way, I have a bugaboo for a level truck and the meduim duty "aint" doin it.  If by chance anyone knows of expereinces with the 747-748 on a DII I'd love to know about them. Not much on DiscoWeb. |
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Mike Rupp
Veteran Member
Posts:1354
| | 10 Feb 2009 10:26 AM |
| The reason why I like to make the distinction is that there is a big difference. One is to be expected and the other isn't. Anyways, the medium duty springs are good for an truck that will have minimal modifications done to it such as heavy steel bumpers, winches, etc.
It's doubtful that you'll find much information on the OME 3" lift springs. Bill had OME make them specifically for GBR; they were a custom run. Bill never really promoted them, so who knows how many of them are out there?
Regarding a level truck: it seems that the RTE springs end up with a nose high truck and the OME's are tail high. Depending on your bugaboo, you might have to add spacers to get it just right. |
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Gem Mookherj
Basic Member
Posts:147
| | 10 Feb 2009 02:09 PM |
| I've run both 2" and 3" RTE, both required abs and brake line extension; I was able to pull the factory abs wires enough to reach
IMHO 2" RTE is plenty, running 265s which wheels fine and highways well yeilds you closer to 2.75, however shock selection can be a pain for these coils
if you want to run 255-85 or 285-75 you need 3" RTE and the 7100s I'm running with reservoirs are awesome; but you must run xmember spacers
I am a fan of the bilsteins so i am also a fan of the rte coils; but to make things level I needed to use d1 perched in the rear, mine now sits level |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11799
| | 10 Feb 2009 02:36 PM |
| Be careful with the cross member spacers Gem. I went through 3 driveshafts before I realized that under full articulation the driveshaft hits the cross member even with the spacers. I finally just removed mine altogether.
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Ben Bailey
Veteran Member
Posts:2561
| | 10 Feb 2009 02:37 PM |
| Gem, why is shock choice difficult with those 2" coils? And are you getting 2" of actual lift with all your gear with those RTEs? |
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Dave King
New Member
Posts:38
| | 10 Feb 2009 02:56 PM |
| ...BTW, I think your reasoning is pretty spot on regarding the older vehicles. They are fun, but you either need the time or money to keep them in good shape... Unless you drive Toyotas... Just ribbing ya mate ; ) Ben, I can only assume that there are only a few if even that many XD's around town??? If so then I think I've seen you or your wife quite a few times in the last year. Last time I saw one it was being driven by a sandy blonde gal and when I waved and gave her the thumbs up she smiled and shook her head while waving back at me. They sort of "stick-out" in a sea of typical N.American vehicles eh. Cheers Dave |
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Gem Mookherj
Basic Member
Posts:147
| | 10 Feb 2009 03:25 PM |
| Ben,
you either go road friendly with 2" or a bit more trailish with the 3" rte
I rode in a Big Blue coild rig hated it. Rode in in a few OME rigs and felt they were pretty close to the stock spring rate unless you go HD and sag when laden.
I went from stock to the RTE 2" coils, and got the cheapy procomp ES9000s
ug. dont do it.
After 6-8 months the procomps were shot and I needed new shocks
I looked into shocks for the 2" , RTE sells ranchos or Bilsteins that will work with the 2" rte coils, for what the bilsteins cost you better be really sure you want to stay with the 2" lift, as the shocks they will sell you to work with their 2" lift will not work with the 3" lift(as well-iirc the ranchos work with both and were cheap but they are a plain jane oil damper)
For the money it made sense for me to go to 3" shocks and 3" coils; so I sold my 2" and havent really looked back. the rig was more stable on off camber trails with the 2" rte but using the bilsteins, the watts link and the 3" coils has proven very logical with a bias towards wheeling; whereas the 2" is a tad more road friendly
Have you been in a OME equipped rig and then in a RTE coiled rig? I think the RTE tends to feel firmer while not too firm, I found the non HD OME to feel soft and the HD OME to be firmish- just my opinion tho. I wheeled at this years rally with a 2" RTE rig with the OME shocks and the driver said he topped out the shocks if he went too fast, fwiw. I've never run that combo myself. IIRC that was the rig that broke a shock on steelbender. I felt the OME shock broke where it was clear the weld was sketchy. As such i am not gonna recommend OME if you wheel it hard, I think the foxes and bilsteins are more proven to take (ab)use
I really like the RTE 3" setup, but it has its woes over the 2"; liek I had no vibes at 2" but do at 3"
all said I am staying at 3"
I went with 400/100 valving and am not sure if its a tad stiff for the local rutte dtrails but the firm felt good while rock crawling- I kinda built my rig to to that well, using dual arbs, and so my setup is geared towards that.
If you want to have more streetability I'd say go rte 2" but be sure, as if you decide later you want 3" rte its another set of shocks
have you called RTE and spoken to steve there?
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Gem Mookherj
Basic Member
Posts:147
| | 10 Feb 2009 03:32 PM |
| oh the rte 2" yeild 2.7" and the 3" gave me 3.5" with winch bumpers sliders rack and gear |
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