Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 27 Mar 2008 04:06 PM |
| My uncle runs a large program that builds schools in Africa. I've often thought of going over to help build a school and to go on a Safari. I don't know if anyone else has similar ideas, but I found this pretty cool website for people looking to go on a self-guided safari in Africa. http://www.freewebs.com/luangwablondes/guidedselfdrivetours.htm Craig | | |
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Morris Yarnell
 Advanced Member Posts:771
 | | 27 Mar 2008 04:27 PM |
| Craig, I got an email from two people going to Africa in a Pinzgauer. Check out their site pinzgauer-overland.co.uk Might have some insite to the country and travels there. Morris | | | |
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Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 27 Mar 2008 09:14 PM |
| Thanks Morris. I'll check it out.
Craig
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Nevak Risew
 Veteran Member Posts:1200
 | | 27 Mar 2008 09:39 PM |
| Cool stuff guys. I hope to do that when my kids are a little older. | | | |
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Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 27 Mar 2008 09:51 PM |
| Yeah, it isn't something I'm planning right now... although my Uncle is getting older and I should probably go do it before I no longer have the opportunity.
Craig
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Nevak Risew
 Veteran Member Posts:1200
 | | 27 Mar 2008 11:55 PM |
| Go, or you'll kick yourself. And so will I. | | | |
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Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 28 Mar 2008 07:40 AM |
| If I'm going to Africa, my rifle is coming along for the ride. Namibia would be the place. I'd go for Kudu and Gemsbuck.
There are different ways to help out the people of Africa. Some people want to build a school. I'd choose to feed them. :) | | | |
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Mike Falconer
 Basic Member Posts:215
 | | 28 Mar 2008 09:19 AM |
| One of my clients does business in Malawi and also supports a village school and hospital there. I will probably be heading there within the year. I'll have to think about the safari idea as an add-on. No guns though. That country needs no more killing of any kind. | | | |
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Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 28 Mar 2008 09:39 AM |
| Do you realize how much money the hunting industry brings in to Africa in terms of licensing fees and tourism? I dare say that the hunters do more to help Africa than school builders. But hey, get rid of the guns and at least Bambi will be happy.
Getting rid of guns would mean more death of innocent people whose lives are dependent on the hunting industry. Please don't take offense, but Malawi needs to continue killing.
I realize that you think setting up a school and hospital is a noble thing, but so is hunting is as well. Stop being so narrow minded. | | | |
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John Rohrbaugh
 New Member Posts:93
 | | 28 Mar 2008 11:12 AM |
| now now...it's not so much trophy hunting that I think he's concerned about. There has been SO much tribal bloodshed across Africa for so many years now that one needs to be cognisant of those battles and all that blooshed. One consideration for either "side" is a) who really DOES benefit from those hughnormous trophy fees? Does it really go into the "community" or does it simply benefit some hunting club owned by wealthy land owners who pay their "guides" pennies a day? and... b) the landscape in many parts of Africa is pretty denuded by herds of various sorts that are bascially eating the landscape to death. Yes, there are active and healthy predetors to control the numbers but are they effective enough? The trophy hunts (of non predetors) might perhaps benefit the landscape in some way. I guess I should shut up with this little point...so this post doesn't spiral into a thread hijack. I suppose we can all agree that anyway we can reach out and help people is "the right thing to do". Yes? | | | |
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Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 28 Mar 2008 11:34 AM |
| Posted By Mike Rupp on 03/28/2008 7:40 AM
There are different ways to help out the people of Africa. Some people want to build a school. I'd choose to feed them. :0 [/quote] Mike, Are you actually lobbing criticism towards my Uncle's efforts to help the people of Africa... or were you trying to be funny by relating to the fact that you are going hunting (and might possibly be providing that meat back to a community). The humor wasn't clear to me. Either way, my Uncle deserves some positive recognition for what he has done in Africa so here it goes... He's been doing this for his entire life and has helped communities to get water, get irrigation water, farm, provided food/medical supplies, and is currently helping to build schools. He has managed several multi-billion (yes billion) dollar efforts throughout his career, been banned from living in one African country (losing everything he owned), and drank more African beer than any man should ever have to consume. He has a firm grasp over exactly what the people of African need because he lives there permanately. If there was ever a person on this earth that was more undeserving of criticism over what he has done to help the people of Africa it is him. Craig | | | |
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Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 28 Mar 2008 12:12 PM |
| Craig, I'm not being critical in any shape or form. I wasn't being sarcastic. Your uncle is doing good work, but there are alternative ways of helping out.
A good friend of mine went to Namibia a few years back to hunt Kudu and Gemsbuck. This was the realization of a life long dream. The end result was even better than he could have envisioned. He knew that the licensing fees helped raise money to help these poor countries, but he wasn't aware of what they did with the meat of these magnificent animals. The meat from these animals fed the villagers for a considerable period of time.
I hope you didn't think I was somehow being sarcastic. It was as literal as I can be. | | | |
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Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 28 Mar 2008 12:50 PM |
| I misunderstood at first, then thought, "Is Mike really that big of a ....?" and decided that *probably* wasn't the case, which is why I asked. Thanks for clarifying.
I don't personally have any problem with people going to Africa to hunt if they are going through the proper channels (licensed, and hunting in areas designated for hunting). I'm not a hunter, but part of managing any wildlife area is the proper management of predators including humans w/ rifles. The licensing process is the mechanism that controls that.
Craig
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Peter Carey
 Veteran Member Posts:2829
 | | 28 Mar 2008 01:00 PM |
| Ok Mike, I'm confused. these people in these villages can't hunt for themselves? It sounds like "give me a fish, I eat for a day. Teach me to fish and I eat for a lifetime". Why not go over and teach them to hunt if you really want to help? | | | |
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Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 28 Mar 2008 01:40 PM |
| Peter, I wouldn't be willing to commit to the time required to teach people to hunt. (Since having children I've committed to teaching them to "hunt") Actually now I'm confused. I think that we can agree that providing food to villagers is positive in some way. I'm not going to go and teach or otherwise volunteer like Craig's uncle. So should I not hunt at all? What you you like me to do: hunt or nothing? Those are the only 2 options for me. I'm sorry to sound to non-pc, but that is reality.
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Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 28 Mar 2008 01:52 PM |
| We need to get out. Maybe it is just me, but it seems like cabin fever has struck the NW Overland Society. I know I've been a bit snitty lately.
I can't wait for the durn snow to melt so we can hit a trail or at least do some camping.
Craig
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Mike Falconer
 Basic Member Posts:215
 | | 28 Mar 2008 01:58 PM |
| Posted By Mike Rupp on 03/28/2008 9:39 AM
Do you realize how much money the hunting industry brings in to Africa in terms of licensing fees and tourism? I dare say that the hunters do more to help Africa than school builders. But hey, get rid of the guns and at least Bambi will be happy.
Getting rid of guns would mean more death of innocent people whose lives are dependent on the hunting industry. Please don't take offense, but Malawi needs to continue killing.
I realize that you think setting up a school and hospital is a noble thing, but so is hunting is as well. Stop being so narrow minded. I knew my comment would make somebody who is a hunter cranky. Although I'm not a hunter, I don't consider myself narrow minded.To the contrary, I've always wanted to understand why people hunt and I've spent a good deal of time thinking about it and talking to people who do. I learned a fair bit and I'm a lot closer to the why and wherefore. Some of the hunters reasons for hunting are absolutely bogus, but then again so are some of the arguments the anti-hunting lobby trots out. l like guns, I have guns , I like to shoot guns but I don't hunt. I've come to realize that there are two kinds of people in the world...hunters and non-hunters and they will probably always argue. I've given up trying to talk anybody out of it. They don't want to hear it and I've learned that there are some good reasons for it. I guess my problem with hunters taking trophies in Africa is that I don't beleive for a moment that the all this tourist money ends up in the hands of the locals. So, I have a problem viewing hunting in Africa as a "noble" pursuit. It's not. It's simply fulfilling a personal desire. It is taking something from a country that has been taken from for a very long time. Building a school is giving something. In re-reading my post I realize that I've just tried to simplify a very complex situation. Truth is, I don't know enough about the real conditions in those countries that make up Africa to speak with any real knowledge about what should be done. I imagine that it would not be hard to find stories that totally support trophy hunting and of course, those who don't. | | | |
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Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 28 Mar 2008 02:25 PM |
| Craig, I agree with you. I've been quite the grouch lately. I have a wicked case of tennis elbow and haven't been able to go fishing for a while. (Oops, there I go again. I'm sure someone has an issue with fishing)
Mike, sure hunting is a controversial issue but I'm not sure why. Do you eat meat? Have you ever killed an animal for its meat? I'm sure if you have you'd respect the animal quite a bit more than just pulling the flesh out of a vacuum sealed package and not giving it another thought. Most meat eaters have never even thought what is involved with the whole process.
I've killed animals, gutted and feathered them and then eaten them for dinner. I've always eaten what I've killed.
Please dispense with the nonsense that you've given up trying to talk people out if it. What was the purpose of your post then? The simple fact is that my post irked you. You couldn't restrain yourself from commenting.
Let me ask you this: Are you in support of foreign aid to Africa? By your own statements, any foreign aid payments are worthless since they don't go to the right places.
No good deed goes unpunished.
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Peter Carey
 Veteran Member Posts:2829
 | | 28 Mar 2008 02:39 PM |
| Mike, Not. That's what you do with all the kids begging in the streets asking for a penny or a pencil. If you keep giving them handouts, they don't learn to live 'by themselves'. If you don't give them food they will learn to live somehow, someway. All animals do it, including humans. | | | |
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Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 28 Mar 2008 02:46 PM |
| Ok Peter, no it is. I'll keep my money out of Africa. Thanks for making the decision for me. | | | |
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