Peter Carey
Veteran Member
Posts:2829
 | | 18 Sep 2006 01:13 PM |
| Like a lot of people here, I've always relied on a Thermarest matress when going camping/hiking. For the trip in October I will be without my trust 15 year old mattress pad and am considering getting another one. Looking for something else I came across these highend (cost wise) down matresses from Outdoor Reserarch. www.outdoorresearch.com/home/style/home/exped_or/exped_mats/DNM Now, at first I'm thinking, "Down? In the PNW? that's insane." Since we all know down loses a lot of it's insulation properties when wet. But the more I thought about it and looked at the product, the more I realized it won't be as much of a problem in this case. The unit seems really well built and has a lot of loft, plus seems to pack smaller than the Thermarests. The inch or so you get out of a thermarest is nothing compared to the 3" you can get from one of these. Does anyone have any first or secondhand knowledge on these items? Or something else a bt better than a standard thermarest? thanks,
pwc | | |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11803
| | 18 Sep 2006 01:29 PM |
| There is a thread in the camping section on discoweb right now. A couple of reccomendations that looked good are: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...643&hasJS=truekirkham pads
I'm personally looking at the 0 degree Big Agnes pads. I haven't read any reviews or had pesonal experience with any of these though.
--Craig | | | |
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Isaac Fain
Veteran Member
Posts:1013
| | 18 Sep 2006 02:03 PM |
| those down pads look really nice. | | | |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11803
| | 18 Sep 2006 02:27 PM |
| The Big Agnes dual core bags look very similar, only they use a synthetic fill instead of down.
http://www.bigagnes.com/str_pads.php?id=dc
They all look warmer and comfier than my Therma-rest.
--C | | | |
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Isaac Fain
Veteran Member
Posts:1013
| | 18 Sep 2006 02:35 PM |
| saran wrap and goosefeather long johns. that right there is hillybilly geenyus. | | | |
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Peter Carey
Veteran Member
Posts:2829
| | 18 Sep 2006 03:40 PM |
| whoa!! 6lbs. Good golly. I'm looking for something that I can still take hiking.
I compared the Thermarest with the down ones. When i compared things of the same weight it wasn't even close. Therma rest was something like 3 R value and 2" loft. The OR one was 3.5" and R8. Course, it cost twice as much. | | | |
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Isaac Fain
Veteran Member
Posts:1013
| | 18 Sep 2006 04:15 PM |
| faced with this same decision merely weeks ago, i settled on the basecamp from thermarest. it has an R value of 5.8, weighs a bit over 2lbs, and has 2" of loft. that's about an inch more loft compared to the "Trail Comfort", and 0.8 more R value... whatever that means.
fwiw | | | |
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Isaac Fain
Veteran Member
Posts:1013
| | 18 Sep 2006 04:27 PM |
| thought i'd also mention that the "dream camp" 3"+ mat from thermarest is rated at R8, but it's not something you'd want to hike with | | | |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11803
| | 18 Sep 2006 04:34 PM |
| Posted By Peter Carey on 09/18/2006 3:40 PM
whoa!! 6lbs. Good golly. I'm looking for something that I can still take hiking.
I compared the Thermarest with the down ones. When i compared things of the same weight it wasn't even close. Therma rest was something like 3 R value and 2" loft. The OR one was 3.5" and R8. Course, it cost twice as much.
Oh... I got the impression that you were looking for something with a bit more loft, insulation, etc for car camping. The Big Agnes is also 2.25lbs. The only benefit I can see of the Big Agnes over the OR is that it will insulate when wet should that ever occur.
I didn't sleep very well at the Quilomene or Lake Wenatchee with just my Therma-rest basecamp. I slept great at Gallagher Head lake when I put the therma-rest on top of a 4" air mattress (used both since an air mattress doesn't insulate). So, now I'm looking for something a bit denser and/or taller that still insulates, and that won't pop as easily as an air mattress.
I'm not sure if Isaac and I are talking about the same Basecamp though. The one I have is 2lbs 11oz in it's Regular form factor, and more in the other form factors. It also only has 1.75" of foam. Therma-rest has so many models now I never know what anyone is talking about. :-) http://www.vtarmynavy.com/thermarest-basecamp.htm
The OR and Big Agnes both look good on paper.
--Craig | | | |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11803
| | 18 Sep 2006 04:52 PM |
| A good article with more info. Of note, the non-dual core Big Agnes pads have been known to leak. The dual core's haven't been in the field long enough to know how they will stand up. the dual core's use a heavier material than the regular Big Agnes pads.
The OR one appears to be getting reviewed under a different name in this article. They have the same model numbers. They received good reviews. http://www.consumersearch.com/www/sports_and_leisure/sleeping-pads/fullstory.html | | | |
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Peter Carey
Veteran Member
Posts:2829
| | 18 Sep 2006 06:31 PM |
| Isaac, so you got the basecamp regular?
http://thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=53&cID=3
That looks like a good ratio for weight to R value (insulating value same as the R36 in your ceiling and all that, ability of a substance to resiste heat transfer).
I had the 72" ones before and being 73.75", I need to go longer. It's just not comfortable having part of you hanging off. It looks like the Down 9DLX will compare to the Large Basecamp, size wise. A bit lighter weight and a bit more insulation for the down one at that point.
http://www.outdoorresearch.com/home/style/home/exped_or/exped_mats/DNM
Thanks for the other link Craig. Here's another reviewing site I was part of for a while until I realized just how staunch their reviewers were sent through the wringer. They do have really complete reviews though.
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Pads%20and%20Air%20Mattresses
Hay Craig, maybe add a camping supplies category to the links section.
pwc
PS, I tried to make nice links, but my HTML skilz are squat. | | | |
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Isaac Fain
Veteran Member
Posts:1013
| | 18 Sep 2006 08:51 PM |
| yeah, i've got the basecamp regular. i'm only 5'6" so the length is perfect for me. and craig is prolly right about the loft ... looking up:
" - his series is created for campers whose greatest interest is sleeping comfort; perfect for car campers, family campers and base campers
- Thick and warm 1.75-inch solid-foam core offers cozy comfort
- Provides dependable insulation and cushioning from the cold, hard ground
"
and then it goes on to list the dimensions as:
so there you have it! 
I see on the REI website that "LuxuryCamp" has an R-value of 6.1 and has a claimed thickness of 2.5". that also costs you nearly 1lb more in weight!
so after doing some more reading, i'm thinking my long-term plan for car camping and maybe winter camping is to pair my basecamp with a foam pad like the Z-lite. I've been reading about show-shoers combining close-cell foam with self-inflatables for extra warmth - and for $35 for the Z-lite it seems to make more sense to layer when you have the luxury (or idiocy) of carrying both, and be able to pick one or the other then for backpacking trips in summer, or maybe the Z for a nice summer nap on a long day-hike. the Z only has an R value of 2.2, but its probably enough to notch up your contact sleep-pad a digit. who knows, though - i'm going to double up our two self-inflating therm-a-rests and see what happens this Oct. | | | |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11803
| | 18 Sep 2006 09:28 PM |
| Posted By Peter Carey on 09/18/2006 6:31 PM
PS, I tried to make nice links, but my HTML skilz are squat.
I'm not sure if you mean in the discussion forum, or in the links section. In here, just highlight the text you want to turn into a link with the mouse. Then, hit the globe with the chain links on it in the toolbar.
In the links section, use the basic editor instead of the advanced editor and you won't get HTML intermixed with your text in the description.
--Craig | | | |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11803
| | 18 Sep 2006 09:35 PM |
| Posted By Isaac Fain on 09/18/2006 8:51 PM
so after doing some more reading, i'm thinking my long-term plan for car camping and maybe winter camping is to pair my basecamp with a foam pad like the Z-lite. I've been reading about show-shoers combining close-cell foam with self-inflatables for extra warmth - and for $35 for the Z-lite it seems to make more sense to layer when you have the luxury (or idiocy) of carrying both, and be able to pick one or the other then for backpacking trips in summer, or maybe the Z for a nice summer nap on a long day-hike. the Z only has an R value of 2.2, but its probably enough to notch up your contact sleep-pad a digit. who knows, though - i'm going to double up our two self-inflating therm-a-rests and see what happens this Oct.
That's what I do. I double up my thermarest with a foam pad. The tighter foam makes a good barrier next to the ground, and the thermarest is a little softer to sleep on. I think I'm going to switch from the basecamp to one of those exped models though. Sleeping well is a priority for me, and I do a lot of winter camping
One other way to add 10-15 degrees to a sleeping bag is to add a bivvy sack (even when in a snowcave or a tent).
--Craig | | | |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11803
| | 18 Sep 2006 10:05 PM |
| Peter,
I added a camping gear links page.
--Craig
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Peter Carey
Veteran Member
Posts:2829
| | 19 Sep 2006 07:57 AM |
| Isaac, with two thermarest you just gotta make sure they don't slip off each other much. Other than that, more loft and insulation would be a good thing.
friggin link button that I forgot.....I was trying to be all fancy and screwed up.
pwc | | | |
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Peter Carey
Veteran Member
Posts:2829
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Peter Carey
Veteran Member
Posts:2829
| | 21 Sep 2006 03:08 PM |
| I went down (har har) to the Outdoor Research store today and after talking with the dude and trying it out for a bit, decided to buy the 9DLX. I got the little inflating pillow which kinda works better than using the dry sack.
Basically the drysack has a one way valve in the bottom. It also has some foam inside to help it popback up. You open a valve on the pad and attach the bag via the one way valve. Then poof the dry sack full of air, give it two rolls at the top to seal it and push down to get all the air into the pad. It takes about 10-15 pumps to get it inflated but I also didn't let it naturally loft up first, like you do a thermarest, so maybe it's less.
The pillow works like you're doing chest compressions for CPR. The pillows seems decent as well as a pillow.
It'll all get its first test in lovely Canadia in two weeks. At which point, if it doesn't work, it'll stay in Canadia. | | | |
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Craig Miller
Posts:11803
| | 21 Sep 2006 03:47 PM |
| From the information available, that looks like its the best choice. I wish it would work with my Big Agnes sleeping bag. That -40 degree rating sure does sound cozy when the snow is falling and the temperatures drop.
--Craig | | | |
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Peter Carey
Veteran Member
Posts:2829
| | 21 Sep 2006 06:27 PM |
| You can always put it under the sleeping bag.
I inflated it again when I got home and it is some work, not for the laid back American who wants his stuff to set itself up. This will mainly be a winter pad as it seems overkill for summer. The pillow is actually comfortable if you threw a softer shirt over it.
And I see your sig line has changed! | | | |
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