| | |
Where do I start Last Post 11 Dec 2009 10:06 PM by Craig. 35 Replies. | Sort: |
| Prev Next | You are not authorized to post a reply. | |
jake
 New Member Posts:48
 | | 09 Dec 2009 04:46 PM |
| I'm rebuilding a 96 disco 1, heres what I've done: Head liner, Electric heated seats out of a 2002, Rebuilt engine, ( new heads, cams rings,ect..) tranny, replaced head lights, carpet, back seats, front seats, added safari racl very crappy bumper (half brush guard and cut off plastic from stock) Lights on top,and in back buck up and utility above door, new couplings hoses, So its basically stock. I want a lift, bumper, tires, (my ac to work and my clock) gas cans and some rock guards and sliders. Need ideas on what and where? Heres the catch, I'm poor and want to install if I can. |
Attachment: DSC00031.JPG
Attachment: DSC01646.JPG
Attachment: DSC01962.JPG
| |
|
|
Andy Berglund Tacoma, WA
 Veteran Member Posts:3453
 | | 09 Dec 2009 05:41 PM |
| I like your last picture. There are a million and one resources that deal with lifting a D1. I will save my breath and suggest that you head over to discoweb or similar. I would say that they aren't kidding about the height "restriction" for a budget lift. What is your experience level offroad? I ask because if you are just getting into it I would rcommend that you get familiar with your truck befor doing anything. In my opinion a set of sliders are the most useful bit of protection along with diff guards (the front being most important IMHO). While a front bumper looks super cool it is almost useless without a winch. The nice thing about these trucks is that they're fairly easy to work on.
A |
| | |
| Gabriel Itaya
 Basic Member Posts:331
 | | 09 Dec 2009 06:06 PM |
| is the middle picture taken on the loop near paradise?
nice pics and good luck with the build. i have the same rig and i absolutely love mine. i agree with andy about the bumper, and the first thing you need to lose is the side steps for better ground clearance. |
| | |
| Isaac Fain WARNING: Pot Stirrer
 Advanced Member Posts:512
 | | 09 Dec 2009 06:10 PM |
| Sounds like you've got a great start. I'm going to toss this out there and it looks a lot different than most conventional thinking. Do your own research, read up on all the different boards and endless threads like this one and do what makes sense to you and fits your goals. The list below here is essentially what I would do with a LR product if starting over (which I will be, soon ...)
Recovery gear: - ARB X-Jack - sand ladders for snow, sand, and mud - good shovel - gloves - Jerry can for water - tree strap - nylon towing strap - kinetic strap - quality d-shackles - hand winch: Wyeth-Scott https://www.wyeth-scott.com/ $150 - snow chains
forget the hi-lift for now. the X-jack is safer to use and more effective. Chassis: (in order) - get rid of those running boards - ditto for front spoiler - NATO "Jate" rings front and rear - Front swaybar disconnects - gas tank skid - this is imperative - Rovertracks high-clearance tie-rod and HD steering links
Tires/Rims: 215/85-16 all terrains on NATO (aka Wolf) Rims. Contact pressure is everything, as is the softer spring rates of your stock suspension.
If you can't afford tires and the steel rims, then just find some nice OEM size replacements. 245/75 is a nice size but they'll rub like crazy with the stock springs. The skinny 215's will grip like mad, get you some clearance under the pumpkins where it's needed (they're about 30" tall), and are narrow enough so as not to cause clearance issues under articulation.
Drivetrain: -Truetrack torsen style differential for the rear. -Rovertracks weld-in "sewer-cap" diff gaurds. -Leave the front open -spare axle shafts and CV joints.
Now, keep your eyes peeled on craigslist and the rover boards for a good winch. Wait for it and you won't have to pay retail. It's close to being a mandatory item, but I think beginners are a lot better off building up their recovery kits and learning to use them before buying a winch and calling it done. For a Land Rover I would suggest doing a rear diff over the winch first because a) the 2 pin diff is weak as hell and will leave you stranded and b) with a rear TT or detroit you won't really need the winch much, anyway. If you want a full locker you'll need to pony up an extra $400 for upgraded shafts -especially if you choose Detroit.
fwiw.
cheers -ike |
| | |
| jake
 New Member Posts:48
 | | 09 Dec 2009 06:55 PM |
| Thats great thanks for the replies! Yes that picture is in Paradise. |
| | |
| Dillon Wilke
 New Member Posts:78
 | | 09 Dec 2009 08:59 PM |
| im not 100% sure how LR suspension is set up, but i will say on Jeeps simply getting the suspension freed up is one of the first things i would do (i dont run sway bars on my TJ, but it does effect on road handling quite a bit as the body rolls allot more and when accelerating there is a fair amount of torque lift). The more all 4 wheels are on the ground the better youll be. |
| | |
| Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 09 Dec 2009 11:00 PM |
| Phase 1 - Get it working well mechanically (which you seem to be doing -- thumbs up) - Front/rear jate rings to function as a recovery point - front/rear diff guards - most vulnerable part of your truck to damage - Steering guard or Rovertracks high-clearance tie-rod and HD steering links (as Ike mentioned above) because your steering components are the second most vulnerable part of your truck. - Recovery strap (not a tow trap) so you can yank others out - A friend with a recovery strap to yank you out
Phase 2 - Taller tires for extra axle clearance, lift to clear the tires and to provide better suspension articulation. The additional articulation will help you keep tires on the ground which in turn will give you better traction.
- 235/85/16 tires - 2" OME lift - any higher and it will start costing you - Front swaybar disconnects to allow your new suspension to fully flex - Additional recovery gear: Hi-lift or hand winch and necessary tree straps, synthetic winch rope extensions, shackles, 15' chain, etc - HAM Radio license because by now you are going to be sick and tired of how crappy FRS radios are.
Phase 3 Getting serious... might be time for a front bumper / winch, or maybe you'd rather get a fridge and some storage drawers to organize your gear... or maybe it's time to upgrade your axles/driveshafts and put in lockers. By the time you are here, you'll be a rover addict and know exactly what you want to do next. :)
|
| | |
| Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 10 Dec 2009 07:32 AM |
| Craig, one thing to keep in mind is that an OME lift will reduce the articulation as compared to the stock springs. They have a higher spring rate and don't flex as easily. When Safari Gard started designing replacement springs for the LRs, they used very soft spring rates to get the trucks to flex like mad.
I agree with pretty much Ike said. Focus on good recovery gear and get the diffs and sills protected & new steering links. Wheel it and the direction of the needed modifications will become known. For me, I like to be able to carry a bunch of gear and need heavy springs. The stock springs just won't hold the load. When I first bought my truck, the first thing I bought was a front bumper and winch. Once those were on, the front end was sadly pointing downward. I had no other choice than to get new springs.
|
| | |
| Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 10 Dec 2009 08:37 AM |
| The OME lift will drop more. Fully loaded it should compress just as much as a stock spring. If it isn't going to be fully loaded then he should get medium duty OME springs. If it's never going to be loaded then he can lift it with a puck and still put on the OME shocks. I'm assuming that he plans to fully load it up as most people on here do extended expedition style travel.
I agree with Ike too. I think we said the same thing, I just broke out what I thought was critical for phase 1. That is, nobody is going on the trail with us w/o a mechanically solid vehcile with front/rear recovery points and a strap. Then I just threw in the diff/steering protection since it is the most vulnerable spot... I'd agree that relocation and HD steering links is preferable to a guard on the D1.
|
| | |
| Dale Avery
 Advanced Member Posts:684
 | | 10 Dec 2009 09:48 AM |
| My turn to be the contrarian again. First of all, sit down and really think about what you will honestly be doing in your Disco. Do you REALLY need a vehicle capable of being winched up the side of Mt. Baker and back down again? Or are you planning on spending your time primarily on USFS/BLM gravel roads and two tracks? Where will you be driving, desert country, temperate rainforest, mountains, etc.? A few of the people on this list push their vehicles to the extreme, most don't. If you don't believe me, check out the photo albums. Build your rig to meet your needs, not someone else's. My suggestion, after over 30 years of doing this type of stuff, would be keep it simple. Find someone on this list who has already spent a fortune building up their rig(s), and tag along with them on a couple of weekenders. Find your comfort zone and only start pushing it when you have a bit more experience under your belt. You don't need all these lists of equipment to start of with; they only add weight and expense. By going out with someone who already has all this "stuff" you can see what is really being used and what has been added due to the testosterone effect. There are a lot of Walter Mittys in the world, don't become another one. Get your Disco up to snuff mechanically and electrically. Get the camping gear you need. You sound like you are on a limited budget and are willing to do a lot of work on your own. Great! Start by getting a good set of tires, something like a BFG AT that is one size larger than what you presently are running. These tires have a pretty long life and work O.K. on both the daily commute and off-road. OME and others make a nice 1.5-2" lift that includes heavier duty shocks and springs. When you have the money, they would be my second step, followed by a set of rock sliders IF you decide that you need them for your style of driving. Don't overload your rig. Go out and start having fun with it instead of spending all your time trying to make it look like something the Army Secret Ops use. Dream about that around the world trip, and build up to it slowly. Unnecessary weight is your enemy. Rovers get horrible gas mileage already. More weight means poorer gas mileage. Compromise. Learn how to change a tire in the field and locate your tools so that you can get at them easily when they are needed. Just get out there and have fun! |
| | |
| Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 10 Dec 2009 10:39 AM |
| Craig, I have to disagree. The overall articulation will definitely decrease compared to stock. First off, the stock woodheads and the OME shocks have approximately the same amount of travel. Stiffer springs will want to travel less in both directions. When you add weight, it will help with axle movement, but most likely not enough to get you back to stock. Another thing to consider is that when you lift the truck, you increase the angle on the radius arms and the trailing links. This increased bind on the bushings decreases the down travel. As long as I've had my truck, there has been a misconception that you throw an OME lift on there, and the truck becomes a better wheeling truck. Not necessarily so. When I first bought my truck, I made a few trips to Southern Indiana for weekenders. Most of the terrain down there is deeply eroded, rutted trails in the forest. Becoming cross axled is par for the course in that type of terrain as you cross the rut on an angle. Other than the occasional taps on the bumpers, it wheeled quite well. A few months went by and I got the front bumper and OME lift on there. From all of the threads on Dweb, I expected my truck to now be some kind of off-road monster. Guess what, even with the additional weight and stuff in the back, I got cross axled much more often than before. The same spots that I could easily pass through before required much more speed and finesse than before.
Dale, I'm not sure who you were reacting to by mentioning that you were being the contrarian, but I specifically wrote "Wheel it and the direction of the needed modifications will become known." Ike, Craig, and l all mentioned to get a few things protected, and invest in recovery gear and go from there. I don't care what kinds of roads that you travel on, recovery gear is essential. |
| | |
| Larry Grubbs
 Advanced Member Posts:576
 | | 10 Dec 2009 11:18 AM |
| Jacob, Call Brent at Columbia Rovers, he has quite a few used springs that'll lift it right up. I know he has some OME and RTE springs. He might even have a set of used shocks if you wanted to go that route. |
| | |
| Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 10 Dec 2009 01:25 PM |
| Mike,
Interesting... my RTE lift flexes like mad compared to the OME lift I had or stock. I didn't realize OME springs sucked so bad.
I don't think the bushings are what is going to limit a truck's flex w/ only a 2" lift. So to lift a truck to fit larger tires would you then suggest factory springs for flex, with a spring spacer and OME shocks? Craig
|
| | |
| Craig Miller Posts:11803
 | | 10 Dec 2009 01:41 PM |
| Dale - reread our posts. We all recomended small lifts, diff/steering protection, and recovery gear as the first thing to do. He mentioned that he'd already addressed the mechanical issues so most people didn't address that. You jumped right to a lift and sliders without even addressing steering/diff protection. Sliders protect aesthetics, steering/diff protection gets you home.
Note that my list was broken into phases. My assumption was that he'd do a phase, then drive it. We don't let people on the trail with us if they don't have a mechanically sound vehicle, recovery points, and a recovery strap.
The galleries only indicate that some have pushed their vehicles further than others. For example, I have a 3" lift (had an OME in the past) but suggested a mild 2" lift.
Craig
|
| | |
| Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 10 Dec 2009 03:24 PM |
| Brand bashing? :)
That aside, there are so many suspension differences between your D2, a stock D1, and a OME lifted D1, it isn't even worth comparing yours against either D1 setup.
Let's look at Ike's D1: stocker springs, 215/85s, and a rear TT. There is no bushing bind, better than stock ground clearance, and improved traction. His setup is a relatively cheap buy in and yet will have great articulation and traction. That truck would be a stealthmobile.
My suggestion is to build a truck according to one's needs. I want to have the ability to carry a ton of gear, family, dogs, and be able to go wheeling. I don't want the rear end sagging if I put a few people with gear in it. I also want to be able to just go and wheel by myself with no gear. In terms of off-road ability, I'm a believer in traction diffs first, sexy flexy second. The trails here in the Northwest aren't really calling for mad flex; with all of the loose gravel on the trails, I'd rather have 4 wheels with power, rather than two.
On the front end of a D1, the radius arm bushings will most definitely limit a truck's flex with a 2" lift. I ran for years with a 2" lift and never topped the front shocks out.
I wouldn't suggest lifting the truck by placing spacers under the springs. That raises the COG without raising the spring rates. |
| | |
| jake
 New Member Posts:48
 | | 10 Dec 2009 04:28 PM |
| I do plan on a Heavy load, I more into expedition travel than rock-crawling. I plan to drive to Denali , and down to Zion and Bryce. I like the bins I've seen on random pics. The ones that are in the back and raise the cargo floor, I have seen a few are they custom built or is there a kit, plans? Also like the roof-top tent , whats good? 2" lift is what I had in mind, so I go with OME, RTE or shocks? I want to call Brent, I'm going down to Portland for my 30th this weekend. p.s Thanks again for All the replies I need all the advise I can get. |
| | |
| Mike Rupp
 Veteran Member Posts:1355
 | | 10 Dec 2009 05:27 PM |
| Jacob, assuming that you want to load your truck up, you can't go wrong with a OME spring and shock lift. The first time around on my truck I ran the 751 front / 762 springs. I can't recall the part numbers, but the OME shocks are really decent for the 1.5" lift. The 762 rear springs are progressive, so when it is unloaded, it doesn't have a super harsh ride. What's nice about the OME lift is that it doesn't lift up the truck to the point where the driveline angles get need to be corrected. Keep in mind that you won't get mad flex like Craig, but this setup will be more than sufficient for most trails.
As far as the cargo boxes go, a lot of people make their own. Dave Waters recently made a really nice one. I can't remember the thread name, but you should be able to find it with a little searching. |
| | |
| Isaac Fain WARNING: Pot Stirrer
 Advanced Member Posts:512
 | | 10 Dec 2009 06:07 PM |
| http://www.racktents.com - Todd, here on the forum, is your man for the RTT.
With the weight of an RTT, cargo boxes, maybe a fridge and the like you'll 100% want heavier springs than stock. I hated my RTE 3" springs, but that was mostly a trail truck, and they were the first generation. The later springs like Craig's got are a completely different manufacturer, however, and are much higher quality. With no bumpers, no rack, no tent etc. - 300 lbs/in was stupid stiff for my truck.
I consider OME to be the IBM of the off-road world ... "nobody ever got fired choosing OME". They work pretty well, are durable, and the price point is acceptable. There are other setups that might be better for specific uses, but as an all-rounder it's fine choice. Having said that, Craig's setup with the RTE's seems to flex well and carry the weight just fine, too.
The standard LR template of OME lift, locked rear differential is proven. It's a lot of money to get it all on the truck at once, though, and still have some of the extras like on-board air, winch, bumpers, good recovery gear, sliders, etc. etc.
Mike - OME also provide shims to correct a bit for the castor, don't they? I thought I remembered this being part of the HD kit but I don't recall.
G'luck with the build ;)
cheers
-ike |
| | |
| Isaac Fain WARNING: Pot Stirrer
 Advanced Member Posts:512
 | | 10 Dec 2009 06:23 PM |
| Posted By Craig Miller on 12/10/2009 1:25 PM ...
I don't think the bushings are what is going to limit a truck's flex w/ only a 2" lift. So to lift a truck to fit larger tires would you then suggest factory springs for flex, with a spring spacer and OME shocks? Craig
I think the inductive logic would point toward the choice of something like the Safari Gard springs, which are longer, have more coils, and a slightly softer rate than OME in the same overall "lift" change. Anybody got those old twist-off specs and pictures? |
| | |
| Dale Avery
 Advanced Member Posts:684
 | | 10 Dec 2009 07:00 PM |
| I still stand by my advice. I think Mike is correct about the OME suspension. The ones on my Tacoma, and previously on my Rangie, both have served me well. But I use my vehicle for geological exploration and good old camping. Both rigs drive/drove very well empty or heavily loaded. Super articulation is not a requirment to do expedition style driving. Rock crawling yes. My rock sliders give me tie and lift points along the sides of the rig. I have tow points on both the front and rear of my vehicle too. Jacob could start out with bolting on some D-rings fore and aft and worry about the heavy duty stuff later on. For expedition work, diff guards usually are a waste of money. I had a set on the Rangie and found them to be superfluous, IF I took care in my driving. Tom Sheppard, the expert in expedition setups, has never as far as I have read used diff guards. He takes it slow and easy when he drives. Jacob says he wants to head north and to the Moab area. I've done both without need of them. As far as recovery gear, I suggested he start out traveling with one of you pros initially. You guys typically carry enough gear to recover the Titanic from the North Atlantic. On a low budget, why be redundant? He can slowly pick up what he needs. When Tom set up his G-wagon for solo trips to North Africa, I don't think he even included a winch as a necessity. I have loaned out my last issue of Overland Journal, so can't check up on that. A HiLift or similar jack, along with some D-rings, tow cables and chains, etc. can get you out of a lot of jams. I find that we typically drive into problems, not back into them. A winch on a front bumper doesn't help much then. Just saying....I still have one on my truck ;-), probably because I do most of my stuff solo. Tom Sheppard ALWAYS prefers reliablity to flash. If Jacob were nearby, I'd loan him my copies of Vehicle-dependent Expediion Guide and Off-Roader Driving, both by Sheppard. Maybe one of you could to that for him over there. Do I personally follow Sheppard religiously? Heck no! I happen to like rooftop tents and he abhors them. But in general, I think we all mix up things we want with things we need. Reading some of Tom's stuff would give Jacob a go start without all of our biases. |
| | |
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
Active Forums 4.1 | | |
|
|