Craig,

I guess my efforts at infusing my comments with a great deal of dry humor are for naught.  so I'll give that up.

A couple of years ago, I was thinking of getting a low mileage 80 series Land Cruiser, driving it up to Calgary, and getting a Toyota turbo-diesel shoehorned into it by a company that have been making these conversions for years.  After re-evaluating the cost of the purchase of vehicle and engine plus labor would equal or exceed the rest of my life's purchase costs for regular gas and parts for my Taco, I backed off.  Major conversions like this seldom pencil out. It is a "want to" rather than "have to" decision.

Your original question was for comments based on reliability.   But let's face it, we all have our subconscious prejudices; yours tend toward Land Rovers.  There is nothing wrong with that at all.  Mine tend toward Toyotas.  Is initial reliability your issue?

If you want an honest answer to your last post about reliability, I suggest you go down to your nearest library, or just Google it from home, and look up Consumer Reports owners evaluations of Land Rover products as far back as you can go.  To be frank, they are abysmal.  and that is just 99.9%  highway/asphalt mileage they're talking about.  You require a vehicle that is absolutely reliable, something that you can take to Mongolia (I want in!  Great fossil exploration in parts of Outer Mongolia.)  someday.  Both BMW and Ford dumped a sh*tload of money into Rover, and both got burned and ran away.  Neither could make the Marque as reliable as the other vehicles they make.  And I think that they both made the mistake of going upmarket instead of beating Jeep at it's home game here in the states by following a KISS strategy.  But that's another story....

You remind me of all the good engineers I've worked with over the years; you like to tinker, to tear apart then rebuild a better product.  That is wonderful!  Like I said, if I had the $$ I'd love to make you an offer for your DII just because of that.  But what I see you confusing here is the concept of "what is the most reliable expedition vehicle" with "what do I want to build up to be a reliable expedition vehicle?"  If the second question is what you really want to know, then you have your answer in your replies to others comments.  I think all you have to do is figure out which Land Rover you want to start out with. 

I know you have probably answered this many times before, but why can't you stuff that diesel into your DII and be happy?  You certainly know that vehicle inside and out.  In my experience and in the reading I have done on the subject, most expeditions don't cover virgin ground.  They typically follow existing roads and trails, bad as they may be.  Look at the places Tom Sheppard has gone as an example. Heck, for over 20 years the gov't paid me to drive into some of the most remote places in the western states.  After sweating bullets driving on trails no sane person would be on, more often than not I would find the wreck of a Model A or old Ford truck at the end of the trail. What kind of off-roading exactly do you think you will be doing?  I think it would be cheaper for you to pull out all the extraneous electronics (electric windows, locks, ad naseum) and replace them with crankups, pull-ups, etc. from a U.K. wreaking yard than starting anew.

I certainly hope you don't take this as an attack on you.  I am just trying to play the devil's advocate here.  So no hard feelings?

Dale WU7X

Dale,

I'm not taking it personal at all, and I welcome your comments. This is a serious topic for me, I apologize if I blew right past your dry humor.

I can now purchase a TDI Defender 90/110 directly from the UK or Oz and import it into the US. The engine swap is a choice because I want a 100" Defender, but the engine swap isn't my only option for getting what I want at this point. Rather than starting with an RRC, I could easily shorten an imported TDI Defender 110, as Ed suggested, and still reach my goal. Doing it with an RRC will cost me right around 10-12k including the truck and motor, but not including the Defender body conversion.

While the title of this thread included the word reliability, I made a long list of other attributes that described the vehicle that I want. I do like Land Rovers and make no apology for that, but to imply that I don't like the Taco because of this isn't fair at all. I have owned many Toyotas, and in fact have one sitting in my driveway right now.

I don't like the Taco because (in summary - it's not a simple diesel):

- Like all EFI motors, the taco will be toast after one over the hood water crossing in the middle of nowhere.  It's a great motor on the FS roads and dry trails of the PNW though.
- EFI motor has computers and other electronics that are difficult to repair in the field = not very good for Expo.
- Don't think the motor is more reliable than a TDI or an M617.
- Poor gas mileage. Most users report 14-16mpg in the real world.
- Too much plastic on the interior. Won't wear well over the long haul.

Consumer Reports evaluates North American Standard Land Rovers. like your old RRC and my DII. I fail to see how those reviews are relevant to the vehicle I'm talking about here. Show me a Consumer Reports review of a TDI Defender and I'll take it seriously. I'm VERY familiar with the strengths AND weaknesses of Land Rovers. The body, frame, axles, driveline, transmission, transfer case, and non-engine electronics in a Defender are not a problem. A higher percentage of Land Rovers are still on the road today than any other make of vehicle. Why? Because the old Land Rovers were simple. The things that failed are easily repaired, and the vehicle is once again back in service. There are no power locks on a Defender, power seats, upholstery, heated windshields, Anti lock brakes, Electronic traction control, Hill Decent Control, Air bag suspension, or any of the other fluff that's on the newer Land Rovers. the CR reviews really don't offer any pertinent data for this discussion.

I'm not confusing "What is the most reliable expo vehicle with what is the most reliable expo vehicle I can build up." Right from the very first post of this thread I've been talking about diesel swaps, and any vehicle that's been mentioned in this thread is going to need to be built up. Still... take a stock Defender 90/110 that I can legally import and with essentially no modifications it is ready for a serious expedition. The D100 is just my custom version of the 90/110 because I like driving a 100" wheelbase vehicle. From a reliability standpoint the only difference between the D100 and the other Defenders is the length of the rear driveshaft and axle position. The front 1/2 of the vehicle is identical.

My DII is a horrible candidate for a diesel swap. For starters it has multiple computers all of which talk to each other. If I were to swap in an engine it would have to be an electronically controlled TDI so that it can interface with the BCU (Body Control Unit) and the computer that controls the shift points. I'm not interested in this sort of a diesel as one of the primary intents of the diesel is to introduce a simpler more reliable motor when traveling in the bush, making water crossings, etc. Even if my truck has the diesel, it still has power everything and with the way it is all integrated together it is not a simple conversion to pull it out. The 4.6l V8 in my DII now is as optimal as this truck will ever be and is a fantastic truck when I'm close to home on the trails of the PNW.

I am looking to go on trips that haven't been traveled by other vehicles in over 20 years that are over a 1000 miles away from the closest big city. I'm looking for a rig that is equally able to be taken to the trails around Ellensburg or to remote areas in Northern Canada and drive through deep water crossings. A vehicle that is able to go on an adventure and come home.

The Toyota 60 series cruisers that already have diesels in them that are being sold up in Canada are still on my short list. I prefer the coil sprung suspension, disc brakes, and overall appearance of a Land Rover Defender to the 60 series, but I'm not blind to the economics of going with that instead. I consider the 60 Series and a Defender 110 w/ TDI to be very comparable vehicles mechanically. The only reason I hesitate to go for a 60 Series is because yes, in the end, I prefer the styling of a Defender.

From everything I know about Land Rovers, a TDI Defender 90/100/110 is an incredibly reliable vehicle.

Craig

Mike,

I don't think it is fair to call a Toyota boring, and since it is a non-technical thing, let's keep it out of the discussion.

For this discussion, reliability is of the utmost importance to me.  If a Land Rover can't offer true reliability then I don't want one anymore and I'd probably start looking at the G-Wagen with an M617.    I might be passionate about Euro 4x4s in general, but for this decision I want something that both inspires me and is reliable.  If I can't have both, I'll fall back to reliable.

I see no reason why I can't have both though.

Craig

Just as a reminder... these are my original criteria.

Able to get into it for what I can get out of my DII. Doesn't have to be built up, or even have the ideal engine in it initially as long as it runs reliably in it's initial form or is so cheap that I can afford to put in my desired engine from the get-go.

Very reliable diesel motor, or option to put a reliable diesel motor in. Considering efficient gas engines too.

Simple - very few electronics, no power windows, electric seat heaters, ABS, power locks, etc

100" wheelbase, will go to 110" if approach/departure angle are good

Coil sprung

Disk brakes

Body on frame - strong frame

Good visibility for a 6' 2" driver

Room for myself, my wife, my son, and our dog but not too big to fit down a trail.

Ability to drive 70 on the freeway without getting squirrely

Mike,

You are hitting my point(s) exactly.  I think Craig's question shouldn't be about the most reliable expedition vehicle, it should be how he can make a LR into the most reliable expedition vehicle he can.

Oh, I also like your comments about the TDI.  Replacing your engine with one that already mates to the existing components in your vehicle removes a lot of engineering problems at the get-go.  Do you know the weight differences between a 300 TDI and an aluminum block V8 like those found in RRCs?  If I remember correctly, the TDI may actually save a few pounds.

BtW, are you really saying that you wouldn't go off-roading if you couldn't do it in a LR or a Gwagon?  Very interesting...to me, GETTING OUT THERE is what is critical, the means of doing so is secondary.

Looks like I overlapped Mike and Craig's comments.

Craig,  You have given me a very detailed description of what your wants/needs are.  I guess my one sole comment would be that both of us like something that is available elsewhere but not here.  Those 60 series with the turbo-diesel, cable lockers, etc. ring my bell.  And you drool over Defenders that never made it over here. 

My comments are based on my life and prejudices.  Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.  Go for it!  Just do it sooner than later, no one knows how much time he/she has.

Dale - I'd like to add one comment about the Consumer Reports Land Rover reliability post. While their reports are perhaps somewhat accurate, they don't tell the whole story. Land Rover has one of the highest consumer loyalty ratings in the industry, and that probably includes many of the very people who were respondents to the CR surveys. That loyalty rating includes purchasers of the latest generation of Land Rovers as well, folks buying Rovers for pavement as you describe, but aware of, and in awe of, Land Rover's decades old reputation of building go-anywhere vehicles.
Sorry, don't want to get to far off-topic here, but I think this distinction is important.

This debate is great!  Craig I have really been wanting a very similar vehicle, one in which I can go anywhere reliably and yet drive it daily.  I too want to explore central and south America, Alaska, Canada, etc.  In fact I'll be exploring Guatemala this summer in a Series III. 

But alas I run into the same obstacles in finding a diesel.  As was mentioned any custom rig requires alot of time, money, and frustration unless you have alot of time and money on your hands.  Buying an old 110 and building it up would be the best bet in my world.  A good solid, stock base to build from.  No engine swaps, no frame cutting.  There's a reason manufacturer's and all that brain power fit certain engines in certain vehicles.  The thought had occurred to me while in Nicaragua last summer to pickup one of those Defender 110 4 door pickups I saw running around and driving it back into the U.S., of course, not at a regular border crossing!  A note on Central America.  It might be cheaper to find your 110 down there.  I saw alot of old Toyota FJ's and Rover 110's and most vehicles there are diesel.  Much cheaper to fly down there and drive one back as opposed to having one shipped from Europe. 

Craig that 109 Pop-top is REALLY sweet... IS that here in the states by any chance????

What's so interesting to me is that the king of all expo rigs gtet's NO mention here except from me. The 70 Series Landcruiser may not be everyone's fav. here (although it is mine) but it is without a doubt THE most reliable Expo rig on teh planet. There are even a couple here in Portland (well 2 that I know of) come on folks, Rovers are awesome trucks, but the HZJ78 Troupy is the KING of all Expo trucks. Sorry top keep beating my drum, but most on most every 4x4 Board the 70 Series get's the love it deserves...

What Gives folks!!! Am I the only one who thinks this (I know I'm not but...) I know I'm new, but I'm not new to this world of 4x4's

Another one tha tsomeone else posted that really deserves more cerdit than it get's is the Isuzu trooper. Teh 2.8L GM v6 in teh first gen's was absolute garbage (as in worst motor in history right next to the GM 6.2 NA diesel bad) but they really are great 4x4's. the newer models like Expeditions west (our own Scott Brady) built are really great trucks with a good motor under the hood. I prefer the older body style, but the motor in the newer ones really makes them truly great.

Cheers

Dave

The pop top is a custom 100" Defender, with a 2.8l International diesel. It was made in Northern California. Ed posted a couple of links to it earlier in this thread.

I don't know much about the 70 series Land Cruisers, but since this thread is about me and a vehicle that would support my needs, I am assuming that they are too new to import with a diesel. Can you compare the 70 series TLC with my requirements list (posted in the first post and again later in this thread)?

You *claiming* something is the king, doesn't make it the king.  Explain why it is so good, and compare it to the criteria in my original post. 

Please also read through this entire thread.  The BJ44/45 and 60 series diesels (BJ60?) have been on my short list since the beginning.  Though I don't think any of those are available here in the states for under $40k.

The Isuzu Trooper has already been discussed in another thread with Benny (Holden Jackaroo) and it didn't stack up to my criteria very well.

Thanks,
Craig