This may not be the time to buy an American made vehicle, but....

I have become very interested in the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon recently.  There is a lot of info on it and aftermarket parts available for it.  Someone here recently remarked that all the typical problems for the vehicle have been sorted out over the past couple of years.  Perhaps once Chrysler finally gets settled it would be a good time to pick one up.  With my two dogs and wonderful wife, I like the idea of having a four door rig.  I am also beginning to covet a auto tranny.  The Rubicon's specs are pretty darned good out the door.

On the other hand, I have heard absolutely nothing about the GM H3.  I've looked at the specs and it doesnt' seem to be that bad of a vehicle.  But no one I know owns one, or has experience driving one.  The EE site has a pic of ARB's H3 all decked out at OE.  I would imagine that ARB thus has a good HD suspension system for it, etc. 

Can anyone here give me their opinion on the + and - of each vehicle?  I'd like to hear them.

Dale

Last year I was contemplating trading my truck in for a wrangler unlimited x. I went and test drove one around for a couple hours. It was nice, quiet and seemed pretty well put together. It had more room inside than I expected. The V6 was a little aneimic for the bigger jeep. Saleman said it was the same as the engine in the caravan minivans. It was fine around town and on the freeway. I took it for some light offroading and it did pretty decent, handled a washboard road great and felt very stable offroad. My only hitching point was the 30 grand price tag for the one I liked.

I really liked the 2 piece hard top and the fact that the doors are still removable.

My understanding is the GM is dropping H3, Pontiac, and Saturn.  There goes the nicest little convertible sportscar that the U.S. has made in decades with the demise of Saturn and Pontiac.  But that's another story of GM stupidity.

I believe the H3 is built on a beefed up Cheyenne PU frame.  Having never driven one, my biggest complaints are the small windows and the location of the rear shock hangers.  I have never met anyone that has ever tried off-roading with one.  That is kind of amazing when you think of the market they supposedly were targeting.  Guess it's all a "lifestyle" vehicle. 

Having not purchased a new truck in about a decade, I, too, was a bit shocked by the sticker price.But then I looked at inflation and the better interior, suspension, etc., on the Rubicon vs my old Taco, and the price is pretty comparible to what I paid for a pretty stock Tacoma Xcab SR5 with manual tranny back in 2/2000.  In fact, for the money the Jeep is a much better deal.  I also have Jim Smith Motors in n. ID, and some fabulous deals from the factory right now, and the price is getting better all the time.  The 5.7 L hemi is available too as an option I believe.  So, if it's not a poorly built rig from the factory, it should be a very good deal.  In fact, look what a new LR3 or RR would cost you.  I could never afford a new RR, even if I wanted one.  (Slight pause as I remmenice over my old 1990 RRC)....

Too bad none of us has any experience with the H3s.

I do.
We rented one for work in December to navigate the heavy snowfall this year and it's a real pig. Small windows = no visibility. I drive my D2 in the snow very confidently and have never lost control. Every corner in the H3 was a white knuckle experience. It was way to easy to fishtail. Road "feel" was also no where near as precise as my Disco.
The vehicle was uncomfortable to get into, it's just as hard to see red lights if not worse than a Disco and the seating is very cramped (I'm 6'3").
The only thing positive I have to say about an H3 was the amount of power. Acceleration was not a problem.
 

For comparison, we rented a Jeep Commander as well. Much nicer. Cockpit was roomier and more comfortable and over all feel and capability was far superior. I would actually consider purchasing one.

Garrett,

Thanks for the input.  I was guessing as much about the visibility out from the interior.  Too bad about the fishtailing.  That kills it for me.

The Commander is built on the Grand Cherokee unibody, isn't it?  I have heard that they (Jeep) are killing it after this year.  Too bad, as I understand it to have a lot more interior room than the Grand Cherokee. 

That reminds me; I was also thinking of the Grand Cherokee with the turbodiesel engine.  Think the engine is a Mercedes derivitive.  But the price knocked me over.  Looks like it is only available in the top of the line model.

So, the Unlimited Rubicon is starting to look even better.

Dale

Take a read through this article to see how the positives & negatives fit with what you want in a vehicle.

www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/suv/163_0810_off_road_suv_comparison/index.html

When I was shopping last year that article certainly gave some weight to my choice though by then I had already settled on the Xterra, I was curious how it would compare to those others.  While I wouldn't mind seeing some more X's in the club, I'd rather see people in a vehicle that fits their needs/wants.  You sure couldn't go wrong with a Jeep for aftermarket parts, something sorely lacking for my 2nd gen Xterra. 
As for the H3, I think if what you want is a gas guzzling, view limited off road rig that hauls ass then I'll happily congratulate you on your new rig and hope it meets your needs. 

Jay,

Thanks for providing the site with the five car challenge.  I would never have guessed the Xtrerra would have done so well.  The funny thing is that when i bought my Taco in 2000, I really wanted to get the then new Xtrerra.  Unfortunately the local dealers couldn'tt find one with a manual tranny for me.  So i got the Taco and have been very happy with it.

Why aren't there more aftermarket parts available?

It's funny you should mention that Dale.  The Xterra I got was the only Off-Road (larger tires, e locker in rear, skid plates, bilstein shocks) in WA at the time and luckily I was able to get it as Paul Allen was looking at it for his sister but she wanted a manual instead of auto.  I think if I hadn't nabbed it that day, as we found out later that there were no manual OR's in the USA I'd have had to wait until Jan/Fed for one to be shipped across the Country.

As you point out, I think a lot of people underestimate the Xterra's or perhaps it's because 90% of the people who drive them are soccer Mom's hehe.  There are aftermarket goodies available for the Xterra, mainly 1st gens (I'm kind of winging the years here so this isn't gospel)  Gen1: 2000-2004 (with 2003? having a supercharger), Gen2: 2005-2009.  Some people call the 2009's gen 2.5 because of the cosmetic makeover however mechanically it's mostly the same as the 2005+.   While there are more goodies for 1st gens simply because manufacturers have had more time to develop for them, the 2nd gens are starting to catch up but still it's nothing compared to Jeep parts.

Armored winch bumpers, sliders, lifts, few suspension upgrades, heavy duty skid plates, light bars are starting to show up but with only a few small shops doing it they are getting a premium and turn around time, in the case of a Shrockworks winch bumper can be in the 4-6 month category.  It'll be nice to see what ARB ends up offering for the 2nd gens as they just had an engineer up here from AUS. in Renton to take measurements for them.

I have no doubt that the article I linked to wasn't biased in some ways (ie who knows maybe Nissan bought a crapload of advertising) but from my experience with the X, I would say their descriptions of handling, noise, mpg and overall feel of the rig jibe with what I've seen so far.  If you have any questions I'd be happy to try to answer them.

If you go look at one, try to find one in Off-Road trim as that has a little more ground clearance and bit of a stiffer ride than the other models but interior wise they are all about the same.

We're still planning it but my Dad and I are going to take it out next month for what's shaping up to be around a 5k+ mile road trip; I'm sure once I get back from that I'll have discovered any shortcomings.

Jay,  thanks again!  Too bad I couldn't "borrow" one today.  I'm heading out at noon for Cle Elum.  Will spend tonight, hopefully, at one of the FS campsites near Fish Lake (I have a picture from there in my photo section from a couple of years ago when we were there kayaking).  It's the spring shakedown cruise for the Taco.  I will also be attending a nymphing class at a Cle Elum fiyfishing shop Saturday afternoon. 

H3's I believe are not bad aside of visibility.  It got 2008 Four Wheeler of the year from FourWheeler magazine (I can relate much better to this pulication than trucktrend) (Xterray and Rubicon was absent.

And Xterra was one for 2009 Four Wheeler of the year unfortunately it was only reasonable competitor though was new Land Cruiser (Lexus GX570) but H3, or FJ cruiser, or Rubicon were absent.

Wrangler Rubicon (new model of it) was 1st  in 2007 Four Wheeler of the year this was more interesting test since it had H3 (came in 2nd) and FJ cruiser (second to last)

In Hummer H3 came in 3rd in 2006 Four Wheeler of the year after Land Curiser 100 and Land Rover LR3 overall but scored 2nd in trail performance

2005 had Touareg V-10 won 2005 Four Wheeler of the year

2004 Lexus GX470 (Land Cruiser Prado on rest of the world) 2004 Four Wheeler of the year

2003 GX470 again 2003 Four Wheeler of the year Wrangler Rubicon came in distant 6th with big loss in creature comforts

Dale,

If you are serious about getting a new rig and are truly interested in the H3, rent one for a long weekend, pack it up, and take it out.  Its not going to cost that much and in the overall scheme of a $30k purchase, I think its money well spent.  Only you really know what works for you.

Years ago my new truck was in for warranty work so they gave me $35 a day to rent a car for the week.  I was always intriqued with the Volvo turbo wagons, so I walked next door to the Volvo dealership and told the sales manager exactly that, then added, "OF course you lease them, but do you have a demo I could rent for the week?"   They hooked me up with a used 2 yr old GL 850 Turbo for $35/day.  You never know unless you ask.  Plus "renting" versus "test drive" leaves you off the hook for any sense of obligation or guilt.

If you are looking at the 4 dr Rubicon, may I also suggest an internet search for a slighly used American Expedition Vehicles Rubicon.  With todays economy, someone somewhere has to be getting rid of their AEV Rubicon with low miles, and big savings.  Unless its totally too much vehicle for what you want.