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Subject: Beginner Amateur Radio Questions

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Craig Miller
Title Sponsor


10/29/2009 9:39 AM Alert 

If anyone has any questions about Amateur Radio but have been reluctant to start a thread to ask, ask it here.

 

I know when I first started I had all sorts of technical info and read a lot of rules but what I didn't know was how an actual HAM radio conversation sounded.  I found myself listening to old guys talking about their Thanksgiving Dinner menus just so I could understand what was expected of me when I spoke on the public airwaves.  It took me a while before I was comfortable talking on the radio.  Two quick points:  1.  It's really straight forward, and 2. Where we travel there are very few people listening, if any.  So, relax, have fun, and don't worry about it.  If you have questions, just ask.

I'm still REALLY new to HAM/Amateur Radio (Amateur Radio sounds less geeky than HAM).  I don't know much about it in fact.  I know enough to talk to another HAM both via direct radio<->radio communication or indirect radio<->repeater<->radio communication.  Here's a brief intro to the technology.

An amateur radio is both a reciever like a regular AM/FM radio and a transmitter like a walkie talkie.  Because they can both transmit (send) and recieve (listen) radio signals they are called "tranceivers".

To receive/listen walkie talkie style (radio<->radio) you just dial the frequency in like you would with an AM/FM radio station.  E.g. on an FM radio you'd dial it in to 90.3 to listen to KEXP.  On a HAM radio you'd dial it in to something like 146.460 to listen to me (K7NAV) if I told you I was transmitting on that frequency.

To talk/transmit/broadcast you just push the button and talk.  You need to identify yourself using your callsign.  This is the hardest part at first since you can never remember the callsign you were given.  My memory is lame, so I got a "vanity" callsign that I could remember more easily.  Todd (K2RVR) and others have them as well.  It really helps to both remember your own callsign and for others to remember your callsign if you have something catchy like Todd's.

How do you get another HAM's attention and have a conversation?  For example, if I (K7NAV) want to get Todd (K2RVR) I would say:

Craig:  K2RVR K7NAV

Todd:  K7NAV this is K2RVR

Craig:  Talk as normal, in plain english.  No 10-4 good buddy stuff, no Q codes, etc.  Just talk.  If it's important, repeat things back to the other person to let them know that you understood.

Todd:  Just talk back as normal

Every few minutes drop your callsign at the end of what you are saying.  E.g.

Craig:  "I'm headed to the Chevron in Ellensburg, do you want to meet me there? K7NAV"

Todd:  "We want to stop for a burger, so we'll just meet you in camp. K2RVR"

When you sign off, say out loud that you are done.

Craig:  OK, we'll see you in camp then.  K7NAV clear (clear is particularly used if you are talking through a repeater)

Todd:  K2RVR clear

 

The only other thing that you need to do is to pause once in a while so someone can break in if there is an emergency.


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Todd Eliason
Title Sponsor


10/29/2009 9:48 AM Alert 
I would add that the sound quality is SOOOOO much better than CB or FRS. I find the CB distracting in my old age due to the poor AM quality of the sound, and having to concentrate on what the other person is saying to make it out, rather than focusing on whatever I am doing. Plus the range is fantastic!

93 LR Defender 110
05 Land Rover LR3
Jay Erickson
Member Sponsor


10/29/2009 3:10 PM Alert 
How do you realistically use a repeater?
Is there a cost to use them?
Do you have to join specific clubs for access?

Traded in all my project vehicles for my 2009 Xterra, not an ounce of buyers remorse.
Mike Rupp
Member Sponsor


10/29/2009 3:15 PM Alert 
Jay, for the most part, repeaters are free to use and don't require a membership to a club.

What do you mean by "realistically use a repeater"?

WZ7V

Study for amateur radio exams here


Craig Miller
Title Sponsor


10/29/2009 3:51 PM Alert 
Posted By Jay Erickson on 10/29/2009 3:10 PM
How do you realistically use a repeater?
Is there a cost to use them?
Do you have to join specific clubs for access?



 

I'm really new to this, but will do my best to answer the question.  Hopefully others will chime in with the info that I forgot.  There are many advanced things you can do with a repeater such as make a phone call (autopatch), link to another repeater (IRLP), etc.  I'll focus on the very very basic stuff that I know about and what I believe you are asking about.

There are two types of communication in HAM Simplex and Duplex.  Simplex is when your radio transmits and receives on the same frequency (E.g. 146.460).  This works like a walkie talkie, CB, or FRS).  Duplex is when you transmit (talk) on one frequency and receive (listen) on another frequency.  Repeaters are setup to use "Duplex".  The repeater listens to what you say on one frequency then re-transmits (repeats) it on the other frequency.

 A repeater advertises two frequencies in the repeater books.  The one it "listens" on, and the one it "broadcasts" on.  Tune your radio to the frequency that the repeater broadcasts on.  Most modern day radios will automatically go into "Duplex" mode and automatically set your transmit frequency to the one the repeater is listening on.

There are two basic ways to access a repeater without PL tones and with PL tones.

Without PL tones: If there aren't any PL tones then you are all set.  Talk into the microphone as normal and the repeater will repeat what you say on it's broadcast frequency.  Everyone who is tuned in to the repeater will hear you.

With PL tones:  If the repeater has a PL tone, that frequency will be advertised in the repeater directory along with the frequency.  A PL tone is *exactly* the same thing as a PL tone on an FRS radio.  It is just a tone played at a particular pitch.  Just access the PL tone menu on the radio and set it to the frequency (pitch of the tone) that the repeater uses.  Most radios have presets (like in a car radio) so you can store this info along with the frequency in the preset.  From then on out you just select the repeater from the preset.

Here's a great online repeater directory.  You can see some of the things that it lists for each repeater.  http://www.artscipub.com/repeaters/states/Washington.asp


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Danny Stevens



10/29/2009 6:44 PM Alert 
Thanks guys

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Jay Erickson
Member Sponsor


10/30/2009 1:53 AM Alert 

Thanks.  Covers my Q's.

What I meant was how are the repeaters used in practice.  Theory is great but there's usually some gotcha's when you go to apply the theory.  I was mainly asking how not only do the repeaters work but the people who run and use them on a regular basis.

Way, way back in the day I belonged to a CB club (ch 2 out of Lakewood/Ft Lewis) when you still had to get a license and I can remember some serious radio nazis enthusiasts who thought they owned certain channels.  Just wondering if the ham scene is similar today?

Weird how nearly 30 years later I can still recall my call sign KBSG9461...wonder what I pushed out of the bucket dredging that up!


Traded in all my project vehicles for my 2009 Xterra, not an ounce of buyers remorse.
Craig Miller
Title Sponsor


10/30/2009 2:44 AM Alert 
Most clubs are happy if someone outside of there club uses their repeater. Those that aren't put access codes on it to make it private.

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Todd Eliason
Title Sponsor


10/30/2009 10:14 AM Alert 
I'd agree, Most want them to be used because it gives them someone to listen to and talk to. If you use a repeater a lot, I'd reccomend joing the club. they are pretty cheap.

93 LR Defender 110
05 Land Rover LR3
Nate Skate



11/04/2009 10:18 AM Alert 

The big question for me is if I break down or have an emergency out in the middle of nowhere, (Quilomene, Nevada, the Maze District of Utah, Bothell, etc.) how likely is it that I will be able to get help via HAM?

The extra antennae looks cool.

Mike Rupp
Member Sponsor


11/04/2009 10:48 AM Alert 
Nate, obviously the answer to that question is not easily quantifiable. The answer is you will be more likely to get help in the middle of nowhere with decent 2 meter setup than without. Most of the places that you will venture to offroad will not have cell phone coverage, but the liklihood of being within repeater range is much better. If you are out in the open like Nevada or Utah, it is quite possible to be able to reach a repeater that is 75 miles away. Even if you hit a repeater, there needs to be someone listening that is willing to get involved. Fortunately, as a general rule, hams love to be able to help out.

A land rover friend of mine W6HC was on a trip in Baja California and blew a diff. He was able to communicate with another HAM via HF and was able to relay communications to someone back in Socal. Arrangements were made and someone drove down a third member and they were able to continue their trip.

The way I look at it is that a solid mobile 2 meter setup is a great way to have clear & reliable communications with other vehicles that you are traveling with. In addition, it can be effective at being able to communicate with the outside world if an emergency arises.

WZ7V

Study for amateur radio exams here


Todd Eliason
Title Sponsor


11/04/2009 12:40 PM Alert 
Many repeaters have an autopatch into the public telephone system to call for help if no one is listening. I have used it in the Tillamook forest to tell my wife that I was way late but safe.

Typically you will need a code (membership) to use the autopatch but 911 is usually open for any emergency use.

93 LR Defender 110
05 Land Rover LR3
Dale Avery



11/04/2009 12:50 PM Alert 

Here is another way to look at repeaters, and I hope I not being redundant here.  VHF/UHF signals typically are line of sight.  In other words, the signals don't bounce off the ionosphere like HF signals can.  Typically repeaters are located at geographic high spots: mountain tops, tall buildings, on water towers, etc.  A repeater can "hear" your signal coming from a topographically low spot and retransmit it over a broad area.  This expands the area and number of other hams that you can communicate with.

There are large swaths of countryside here in N. America that are not covered by repeaters.  In these locations HF communications MAY be a better way to go.  The earlier example of the rig broken down in Baja is a good example of this.  The communicators initially used HF radios, not VHF/UHF radios and repeaters. 

When you guys on the wet coast are ambling about on your favorite Cascade trails, the changes of hitting one or more repeaters will be pretty high.  This is because of the high population density over there.  If you are traveling through northcentral MT the situation will be a lot different!

All that aside, a good VHF/UHF ham radio using FM and putting out anywhere from 25-100 watts will blow the stuffing out of any CB, etc. system.  I am constantly amazed at how well a ham rig will communicate in the mountains. 

I support Craig's effort to get everyone licensed.  You will find that ham radio is not only fun and useful in the field, it can be a lifesaver at home too.

Dale


After 35+ years running on four wheels, I've gone to the dark side and am playing on two.
2002 BMW F650GS Dakar dualsport
2006 BMW R1150RT sport touring bike
Craig Miller
Title Sponsor


11/04/2009 4:08 PM Alert 
Posted By Nate Skate on 11/04/2009 10:18 AM

The big question for me is if I break down or have an emergency out in the middle of nowhere, (Quilomene, Nevada, the Maze District of Utah, Bothell, etc.) how likely is it that I will be able to get help via HAM?

The extra antennae looks cool.


The goal of getting everyone licensed is for vehicle to vehicle communications.  Yes, you can occassionally hit a repeater with a 2m radio but I wouldn't depend on it for your life or for the lives of your family.  It does help even if you can't hit a repeater though.

- You hit your SPOT help button

- Dale drives near to where you are and sees that you are at the end of a 4x4 trail.

- Rather than driving the trail for 2 hours, he contacts you via HAM and finds out what the problem is.  Runs into town to get the parts and then comes up to where you are.

 

In general, improved vehicle to vehicle communication just makes things a lot easier.  For example: 

Being able to shepherd in another member when they come late at night.

Making contact with someone long before they arrive at a rendesvouz point

Sharing a campsite location via APRS so another member can find the camp when they roll in late after work.

Easier to hear each other, so it is safer. 

There is a better understanding of what is happening at the front/rear of the caravan.

etc.

 

 


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Mark Elfring
Member Sponsor


11/04/2009 7:01 PM Alert 

I'm almost done with the studying part on my ham radio on-line. Should finish this weekend. Hope to take a test be for the end of the year. I know I'll have a lot of questions.

Craig Miller
Title Sponsor


11/04/2009 8:08 PM Alert 
Excellent Mark!

My Overland Adventure Blog
Dale Avery



11/04/2009 8:24 PM Alert 

Craig,

Excellent analysis.


After 35+ years running on four wheels, I've gone to the dark side and am playing on two.
2002 BMW F650GS Dakar dualsport
2006 BMW R1150RT sport touring bike
Dan Cronin
Moderator


11/04/2009 9:53 PM Alert 
Ok, my first night of study complete (2 hours) 65% of 105. What can I say? I was a C student in HS :-)

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Craig Miller
Title Sponsor


11/04/2009 11:08 PM Alert 
Nice Dan. If you are doing hamtestonline.com 65% is really good for 2 hours worth of studying. One more night and you'll be ready to take the test!

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Jay Erickson
Member Sponsor


11/05/2009 2:45 AM Alert 
This is just one of those things that popped in my head and may sound stupid here on the forum but do you still need an swr meter to tune the antenna like on the CB's?
I would probably mount an antenna in the middle of my rack with a quick release or is that a bad idea from a connectivity standpoint? I suppose when I needed the radio I could just reach up and wrench it on.

Craig, that example of Dale driving up to the end of the trail and then hitting the radio sounds like a perfect example of ham use instead of trying to find/remember/program repeaters or bounce signals off the moon/space station, hehe.

Traded in all my project vehicles for my 2009 Xterra, not an ounce of buyers remorse.
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