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Subject: Beginner Amateur Radio Questions

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Craig Miller
Site Admin


11/05/2009 8:34 AM Alert 
Nope, no SWR meter needed for a 2m/70cm radio.

It's important to always have an antenna screwed on as you can blow the radio if you transmit without one. The antennas screw on and can be put on/off with your hand. Another option is to use a Diamond antenna motor to automatically raise/lower the antenna, a mag mount, or a 1" tubing clamp mount. The motor option is nice when it is raining.

The front brushguard is a great place for an antenna in the PNW where we have a lot of branches. I originally had my antenna on my roofrack, but moved it to the rear tire mount when I became tired of both smacking the antenna into trees (forgetting it is there) and raising/lowering the antenna when I did remember. Having it on the rear of the truck has worked much better than I anticipated, though not as good as it did on the roof. The center of the front brushguard while not as aesthetically pleasing is probably the ideal location for an offroader.

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Craig Miller
Site Admin


11/05/2009 8:38 AM Alert 
I'm posting a lot in this thread, but I just wanted to say *way to go* to all of you who are studying and taking the test now. The best part is, a few hours now results in a license that is good for the rest of your life.... oh, and that you'll never have to talk on an FRS radio again. :)

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Mike Rupp



11/05/2009 9:12 AM Alert 

Antennae and the NW trees don't get along very well.  The trees almost always win. 

I have a rubber Comet antenna that I've used in the woods before.  It seems to withstand the trees pretty well.  My current method is to use the NR770 Diamond antenna with my mobile amp when I'm on the road or in open areas and then if I go in the heavy wooded areas, I just flip the NR770 over so it lays down and use my handheld by itself.

 


WZ7V

Study for amateur radio exams here


John Parsons



11/05/2009 9:23 AM Alert 
There is no difference in the reasoning behind testing the SWR on a CB installation as there is on a amateur radio installation. If you want to ensure that you have a first class, properly operating system you should test the SWR. One could argue that a good SWR reading is more important in a CB installation because of the low operating power of the equipment. The higher power typically available in mobile amateur radio gear can mask antenna installation problems (SWR) but this does not mean that you should not test the system. Unfortunately to properly test SWR in a VHF system you need a different SWR meter than you might already have on hand from your CB days but the good news is that you can get a pretty good idea of the integrity of your system by using a CB rated SWR meter and following these instructions

http://kb6nu.com/no-vhf-swr-meter-no-problem/

John, VA7FFR
Craig Miller
Site Admin


11/05/2009 1:45 PM Alert 
John,

Where are you getting your info from that a 2m antenna should be tuned? After your post I double checked and neither my Icom or Kenwood manuals mention antenna tuning as being necessary. I don't want to write it off without further discussion, but my impression is that tuning a 2m antenna isn't something a beginner would need to worry about.

Craig

My Overland Adventure Blog
Todd Eliason
Moderator


11/05/2009 2:09 PM Alert 

Most antennas come pre-tuned for a frequency. Some (from Larsen, etc) can be purchased untuned and you cut the antenna to match it to the frequency you want.

SWR is helpful for these antennas and you can adjust them for the specific frequency you want. They come with instructions on how much to cut off for which frequency. most of us will just buy a dual band antenna that is pre tuned and has a coil on the bottom for SWR reasons.

It is important to make sure you have a good groundplane (metal connection) to ensure you have good SWR on any antenna unless it has it's own.
 

Edit     btw, I am by no means an expert on this.  This is about the extent of knowledge I have on tuning an antenna and have only done it once.  Most won't need to do this if they buy a pre tuned antenna or really want to maximize their performance on specific frequencies.   John's information is great and seems accurate, most of us never take it to this step however.  I may try the CB SWR meter just for giggles.


Who put the Goat in there?
Craig Miller
Site Admin


11/05/2009 2:27 PM Alert 
I think the groundplane depends on the antenna. E.g. the Diamond NR770HB doesn't require a ground, whereas the Diamond HV7A Multiband HF/VHF/UHF does.

This is just based on reading antenna descriptions at EE. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/diamondantenna/


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Todd Eliason
Moderator


11/05/2009 2:31 PM Alert 
That is correct, some antennas have a groundplane built in which is good if you don't have a good one. They are small though and a bigger groundplane is better, from what I have been taught.

Who put the Goat in there?
Craig Miller
Site Admin


11/05/2009 3:05 PM Alert 
How do you ground an antenna with a built in ground plane?

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Jay Erickson



11/05/2009 4:07 PM Alert 

I received a reply from one of the examiners at the Olympia site and thought I'd pass the info along in case any of you may be thinking about it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From AC7MG:  "Our examination sessions are open - meaning we do not require 
appointments.  Please visit our exam webpage 
[http://home.comcast.net/~oars-ve] for all (hopefully) details.

73,

- {name omitted}  [AC7MG]
  OARS exam staff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a lazy link to their info site:  home.comcast.net/~oars-ve

Lazy link to the FCC Registration Number sign up site, they say to have this number in-hand before showing up for an exam : fjallfoss.fcc.gov/coresWeb/publicHome.do


Traded in all my project vehicles for my 2009 Xterra, not an ounce of buyers remorse.
Todd Eliason
Moderator


11/05/2009 4:56 PM Alert 
Posted By Craig Miller on 11/05/2009 3:05 PM
How do you ground an antenna with a built in ground plane?
 



 

I'm not saying you do...  I'm saying that a normal antenna with a good groundplane will probably outperform one with a built in groundplane.


Who put the Goat in there?
Craig Miller
Site Admin


11/05/2009 5:10 PM Alert 
Ahhhh, OK. Sometimes my skull is thick.

My Overland Adventure Blog
Mike Rupp



11/05/2009 5:48 PM Alert 
Craig, I think an SWR meter will give you a good idea of an effective location for the antenna. Even if the standard 2 meter antennae come from the factory tuned to that frequency range, the SWR can be poor even though the antenna is tuned. For example, on my 2' cb antenna, I had a really high SWR because the antenna was mounted on the spare tire carrier. For a quick experiment I mounted the antenna on the rack and the SWR came way down. Nothing was done to the antenna.

Todd, the swr gauge for cbs won't work for 2 meter ham. The swr meters only work within a certain frequency range.

WZ7V

Study for amateur radio exams here


Craig Miller
Site Admin


11/05/2009 6:19 PM Alert 

Mike -- Read the link John Parsons posted.

Do you have a meter for VHF?


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Mike Rupp



11/05/2009 8:12 PM Alert 
My bad.

And no, I don't have a vhf swr meter.

WZ7V

Study for amateur radio exams here


Ben Bailey



01/06/2010 7:42 PM Alert 
I've got a couple of questions...

What type of range can be expected truck to truck if you have 2m radios in eastern Oregon? (Yeah, I know, that's sort of a trick question...)

I'm basically asking. Truck A & B are together. Truck B stops to look at roadkill or to take a picture. Truck A pulls over 3-4 miles ahead. With a CB, truck B could probably contact truck A, if lucky, with no obstructions over flat ground, and with the proper antenna, etc.... Will a hand held 2 meter radio do better?

RBBailey
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Rovers
Todd Eliason
Moderator


01/06/2010 8:19 PM Alert 
A CB radio is 5 watts of power using AM. A handheld Amateur radio is 5 watts as well but has a much smaller antenna without the groundplane, using FM. Still, I'd take the Amateur radio as the audio would be easier to understand. Now make it a Mobile radio with a good antenna and 50 watts of FM, and your really talking. I have gotten 35 miles or so from highpoints. Add a repeater and I have talked to Christian Beck in Corvallis when I was deep in the Tillamook forest.

Who put the Goat in there?
Ben Bailey



01/06/2010 8:51 PM Alert 
OK, but what about when using an external antenna with a 5w FM 2m hand held? The watts don't change, but the overall interference must get a lot better when you plug one into a proper antenna. (Basically, I can afford a hand held, maybe an antenna to go with it. But I can't get a good mobile radio yet -- have to wait till next year for that.)

OK, so today I was going through the study guide test online while my students were taking an evil essay test and I was getting very frustrated at the 65% level working through all the equations and trying to remember what electrical diagrams look like and... then I realized I was on the Extra License Level... I'm much happier playing on the Technician level...

RBBailey
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Rovers
Todd Eliason
Moderator


01/06/2010 9:07 PM Alert 

The Antenna will make a huge difference, but you could lose 1db with the connector, still better though.

A new 50 watt mobile radio is $110-$150 at hamradio.com, used should be cheaper. A decent CB would be $50-100. The mobile will have better reach, better audio, and is a lot less cumbersome in the car.

I'd really recommend the mobile radio.

 

Edit:  I'll add a little quip to this.  My father used to tell me that you never regret buying the right tool.  When you are initially buying something you are relying on and will use, it is easy to go with the cheaper model that will almost, or may, do the job right.  But when you are using it, you are always wishing it was a little better for the task.  He said after the initial purchase, you don't miss that extra money you spent (maybe as much as half more) and you enjoy the work so much more having the right tool.  You respect the tool more, and don't have to gripe about the fact that it isn't quite what you wanted.  Plus you don't end up buying it twice when it breaks or just doesn't do the job.  

They are wise words, especially poignant coming from my father who is very tight with his money.  He can pinch a nickel until the buffalo craps.  I have never regretted purchases where I am getting what I want or need, rather than trying to shoe horn a less expensive version of the item to work for me.  I have many times regretted the latter.

I totally understand the money pinch, I am living it now more than ever.  But rather than getting something that might work for you, invest in a good antenna and borrow a handheld from me.  That way your not investing in something that might get you by, and you can save for the right tool for your application.  I am fairly confident that you will not be happy with a handheld with attached antenna wire in a loud series truck.  Plus it can be stressful to the antenna connector and can ruin the radio.  If you do like the handheld setup, you'll be confident buying that for yourself afterwards.

Sorry for the rant, do what you want, but the offer stands.  most important, go get that license.  you'll be glad you did.


Who put the Goat in there?
Ben Bailey



01/06/2010 9:19 PM Alert 
Yes, I just found hamradio.com, I have to browse there for a bit. Thanks.

RBBailey
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Rovers
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