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Subject: Beginner Amateur Radio Questions

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Craig Miller
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01/06/2010 9:23 PM Alert 
Good to hear you are studying... some guys get all focused on picking a radio before they've even studied. Which is a complete waste of time.

If you can't afford a mobile radio by the time we leave for the trip, I have an extra one you can borrow. It only takes two wires, so they are very easy to install temporarily if you have a magnetic mount antenna.

Craig

My Overland Adventure Blog
Todd Eliason
Title Sponsor


01/06/2010 9:29 PM Alert 

I just edited my previous post after you read it. Take a look and let me know your thoughts.

 


93 LR Defender 110
05 Land Rover LR3
Ben Bailey



01/06/2010 10:10 PM Alert 

I get you.

You want to know what it really is? We are not poor or anything, far from it. It's that we used to be poor. It's that we used to get to the beginning of the month after paying the bills, and because I was making no money for 3 years, we had $30 left in the account to make it for 30 days. (My net income for three years = $1500, and I didn't even make that till the end of the three years -- that was my one and only paycheck after working my tail off for three years.)

It is a place in my marriage/life where I don't want to go again. I've been psychologically stuck on money ever since then, and I don't really need to be. So I'm always whining about it even though I actually have been able to build a savings account over the past year or two. I'm afraid of scuba diving under large ships and I'm afraid of spending money -- just thinking of those two things literally send chills down my back. Besides, I imagine scuba diving under a ship probably costs a lot of money in the first place, so it's really my ultimate phobia.

Oh, and I do appreciate how you guys are willing to let people borrow your stuff, thanks.


RBBailey
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Craig Miller
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01/06/2010 10:17 PM Alert 
No worries Ben. You are doing the right thing. Teachers need to be extremely fiscally responsible. You guys (and gals like my wife) don't get paid anywhere near what someone with all of your schooling and overtime deserve. Anyone who doesn't appreciate teachers has no clue as to how much work it takes to do a good job.

Don't let gear be a reason you don't come along. We'll make sure it happens. Get that HAM radio license though. It's cheap, and I'm tired of only having Todd to talk to on these trips. :)

Craig

My Overland Adventure Blog
Todd Eliason
Title Sponsor


01/06/2010 10:27 PM Alert 

hey I'm not that bad to talk to... Am I? :)

The point that I was trying to make was that the Mobile is a better value, even if the handheld is cheaper. However, neither will work under a ship.

And I love my dad.


93 LR Defender 110
05 Land Rover LR3
Ben Bailey



01/06/2010 10:53 PM Alert 

Ha, ha!

How did I miss that your wife is a teacher?  When I was working hard a making no money, my wife was supporting us through two years of substitute teaching and her first year of being a classroom teacher --- it was a dark time, my friend, a dark time.

Back on track: I'm actually learning a lot more through eHam.net than I am through the practice testing. I'll go do the practice tests again once I study up, but I can't get past 70-75%.  And the math is really cooking me because I don't have any reference point for why I'm doing the math.  i.e., the measurement of antennas and how that relates to actually operating the transciever -- I'm very hands-on like that.  I failed math for two years in high school till I became a pilot, then I was able to get B's in algebra because I could apply it to a real world event -- and if you got it wrong you ran out of gas and died a horrible, firey death on the side of a mountain.

Anyway, the more narrative, start at the beginning, style at eHam.net is suiting me well right now.

Also, there is this for your viewing pleasure.  I only vaugely thought I knew what 2 meter, 6 meter, 144, and 7 cm were, and how they related to each other in terminology and on the RF specturm, till I was able to find a visual like this.  I think I may have to build my own cheat sheet to carry in the car, or on my iPod.


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Craig Miller
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01/06/2010 11:40 PM Alert 

Ben,

Have you tried hamtestonline.com? It doesn't just give you practice tests. It shows you 1 paragraph of material (context) then asks you a few questions. When I first signed up the paragraphs weren't showing up and I had to tweak something in my options. Maybe that's what's happening to you?

As for the portions of the spectrum, it doesn't matter once you get your radio.  You dial a frequency in like an FM radio station, then talk.  The radio even has presets.

Craig
 


My Overland Adventure Blog
Ben Bailey



01/07/2010 5:04 AM Alert 
Yes, I've been looking at that web site, but I'm not following it well, not yet, I'll go back to it when I have some more background info. Yeah, it explains something to you so you can get the next two answers right (if you figure out what Ri means without them telling you, in the equation Rt=Ri/n) but really, I cannot do anything more than memorize answers if I don't have a context for why I'm supposed to know how to measure the ohms in a set of parallel resistors, or what the proper length is for a 6 meter dipole antenna. It's just all isolated story problems to me unless I have some context to apply the vocabulary to, and some importance to attach to it.

Yes, the radio has only a limited set of frequencies, but I can't wrap my brain around that till I see why. And I certainly can't pass a test that keeps asking me why if I don't understand why.

If you start taking that prep test stuff, but you don't even know why 2 meter is called 2 meter, what good is it to try to find the front to back ratio of the free-space radiation pattern of an antenna?

I'm very visual, so that chart single-handedly explained to me what is meant by 144 or why some radios say they are only 2 meter, some say they are 144, some say they are both 2 meter and 420, some say 144/420, others say 2 meter/70 cm -- now I know what the heck they are talking about... I didn't get that from the test prep.

Anyway, that's why I need to read a front to back narrative that starts with: "This is a radio, you talk to other people with it." And ends with: "Now solder the thermistor to the circuit board before reconnecting the chassis ground and closing the access panel to your new, home-made shortwave base station."

And yes, it is 5:00am, and I haven't slept yet, and the alarm goes off in one hour.....

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Mike Rupp
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01/07/2010 8:25 AM Alert 
Ben, I'm sure as a teacher, it is frustrating for you to just memorize answers for the test, but that is the goal at first. Just memorize the answers, and take the test. Once you pass the test, there is a plethora of resources to actually learn whatever you want. I suspect that you will only get a 2 meter (144MHz) or possibly a 2 meter and 70cm (440MHz) radio. If that is the case, you really won't need to know all of the theory that the technician exam covers. Topics like how to actually operate a repeater will be much more important than antenna theory.

WZ7V

Study for amateur radio exams here


Brett Curry



01/08/2010 8:23 AM Alert 
I've been studying on hamonline as well. Question, on some of the equation stuff with only one example problem in the program, will these be the exact same problems on the test or do I need to memorize the equation. Guess the real question is... memorize the answer to a certain question or know how to work a similar question on the exam? I'm actually good at math and enjoy it. Just trying to make the most efficient use of my time. I'm very good at learning what I enjoy and with all the resources out there I can look up whatever I need later. Seems the license is the key, oh and a radio!
Craig Miller
Title Sponsor


01/08/2010 8:26 AM Alert 
Brett,

I believe the entire pool of questions and answers is published online exactly as they appear. You'd have to check with hamtestonline.com to verify whether their questions match the currently available questions.

I memorized the equations for the test as I found it easier than memorizing the answers. 3 eqations vs. 20 questions or something like that.


My Overland Adventure Blog
Isaac Fain



01/08/2010 9:16 AM Alert 
Posted By Craig Miller on 01/08/2010 8:26 AM
Brett,

I believe the entire pool of questions and answers is published online exactly as they appear. You'd have to check with hamtestonline.com to verify whether their questions match the currently available questions.

I memorized the equations for the test as I found it easier than memorizing the answers. 3 eqations vs. 20 questions or something like that.
 

 

for sure.  E = I * R  ... solving for R is easy. brush off dem algebra skillz

 

 

 

 


crashed '97 Discovery I - "Calypso"
Isaac Fain



01/08/2010 9:32 AM Alert 

Ben - understanding spectrum is quite a large topic.   there are a ton of books out there based on RF electronics that provide adequate tutorials of the physics behind them.   start at the public library - by the 70's and early 80's when inexpensive components and pre-etched circuit boards started coming onto the market for DIY'ers there was a bevvy of material written.   Once you understand what spectrum is in terms of electromagnetic light and how it's propogated, some of the basics will become much clearer.   Those basic concepts should provide a firm grounding in the relationships between amplitude and frequency and then allow you to visualize what that means in creating and receiving radio signals, and what that looks like in a component form of the antenna and basic circuits. 

 

edit:  wikipedia gives a good surface scratcher article on amplitute modulation (better known to you as AM radio) here: 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude_modulation

after skimming that, check out the link to SSB - single sideband modulation to get a clearer idea of where HAM radio fits into the larger picture.

 

cheers,

-ike

 


crashed '97 Discovery I - "Calypso"
Mike Rupp
Member Sponsor


01/08/2010 10:58 AM Alert 
Ike, most technicians won't be using ssb. Almost all communications done on 2 meter HAM is FM. There is a tiny slot of the 2 meter bandwidth set aside for ssb, but most radios that technicians get won't do ssb.

don't get me wrong, it is good to learn about, but in the beginning it is about prioritizing. the first step should be to memorize the exam questions. The second step should be to get a basic understanding of how 2 meter communications work along with a basic knowledge of radios and antennas. The third step should be to get a radio and get on the air. Anything after that just builds from the foundation and is only limited to what you want to venture into.

WZ7V

Study for amateur radio exams here


Ed Sanman



01/08/2010 2:03 PM Alert 

After reading back in this thread about ground plane, I'd like to elaborate on that issue a little. Ground plane for an antenna is like a reflector or mirror to radio waves. Our common 2 meter/70cm mobile antennas typically do not have a built-in ground plane. On these mobile antennas, the ground plane is expected to come from the metal panels of the vehicle itself. The larger and flatter the better, so the best place for optimum reception and transmission is a roof mount. But for most of us who drive trails with overhanging braches, we're often forced to compromise. When selecting a compromised location, get as close as possible to the largest, flattest surface you can find, but keep in mind you won't be getting the best performance possible from your radio. I work rallies where I need to be able to talk to finish from the start location, and with the compromised antenna location on the edge of my hood can spend some time situating my truck before the stage starts to get the best reflection I can. Just turning the vehicle, yet staying in the same parked location can have a dramatic effect. That doesn't apply while driving of course, but helps illustrate the point.
These mobile antennas we typically use cannot be tuned. Like Todd mentioned, there are some specific designs that are designed to be tuned, but the average 2 meter/70cm Diamond or Comet antenna is fixed. You can still use a SWR meter to optimize reception, but about the only things you can optimize while doing that are the quality of your connections and to a small degree, the length and placement of the antenna cable.
In contrast, if you're considering a 2 meter/70cm base station antenna for your house, you'll be looking at antennas with a built-in ground plane. The ground plane on a base station antenna is accomplished with radials extending out from the base of the vertical antenna element. Since these antennas are designed to be mounted on a non-reflective surface or mast, they must create their own ground plane.
 

Ben Bailey



01/09/2010 9:53 AM Alert 
I've got two questions. First, where do you Disco/Series IIa guys mount your antennas? I'm thinking the IIa might work to have it on one of the front wings. The Disco --- ? I would assume the center of the roof-top is pretty much the best spot for any car. But the trail I went on last week would have ripped most any antenna off and spot if it wasn't very flexible.

My second question is this: I've got one of those cheapo Grundig SW/AM/FM receivers I use for my garage radio. I actually can listen to SW broadcasts on it. It does dial in to the 144000KHz range, is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to pick up repeater traffic?

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Craig Miller
Title Sponsor


01/09/2010 11:11 AM Alert 
Ben,

I think there are three places to consider: The center of the roofrack, on the spare tire carrier, and on the hood or brushguard.

I've had mine on my roofrack with a Diamond motorized antenna mount to raise/lower it. I still smacked it into things as I would forget to lower it or be in the middle of an obstacle where I couldn't stop to lower it. I have my HAM for trail use only but I found that in the PNW that every time I hit the trail I had to lower it, making it worse than the back of the truck.

I moved mine to the spare tire carrier (pictures in my 99 DII Snowshoe thread) where I expected it to work poorly. It doesn't work as well as the roof over long distances, especially forward, but any sort of vehicle to vehicle communication has been fine. It has surprised me how well it has worked in all directions. On the back center of the truck it has been very well protected from everything. It is also a discreet location which is good for aesthetics and security (less prominent). Despite my negative comments above I really don't have *any* complaints about this location. It works and the antenna is never an issue for me.

Aesthetics aside, I think the ideal location is near the center of the brushguard or a hood lip mount. It's in the middle of the truck so it is unlikely to get struck by branches. It is in front of you, so you see it before it gets smacked, it has the hood to serve as a ground plane, and it is far enough away from the cab to minimize interference.

Pros and cons to all three based on where we live.

My Overland Adventure Blog
Mike Rupp
Member Sponsor


01/09/2010 11:40 AM Alert 
Ben, why don't you set the frequency on your SW radio to one of the local repeaters and see if you hear anything. It is worth a try. Even if the repeaters is not in use, you will still be able to hear the repeater identify itself every 10 minutes.

WZ7V

Study for amateur radio exams here


Ben Bailey



01/09/2010 11:49 AM Alert 

That's what I was thinking, Mike, I've listened for a few minutes, but I'm not just sitting there staring. I'll let you know if I hear anything. Right now I'm listening to 146820KHz, the reported freq of a repeater nearby -- I can probably see the antenna from my house if I had a scope. Do they broadcast every 10 minutes on the tens, or is it just every 10 minutes from whenever?

Craig, I went quickly through the Snowshoe thread and missed a rear mounted photo of an antenna.  The rear tire mount seems like a good compromise, so it's good to hear that you don't have real issues with reception there.


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Todd Eliason
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01/14/2010 11:54 PM Alert 
So it sounds like the question pool is changing in June. it will take a while for the online study guides and prep material catches up...It is in everyone's best interest to get it done well before June.

From a SAR Friend...
< If you have been considering getting a HAM radio license, NOW IS THE TIME. The current question pool expires on June 31, 2010. The new pool of questions are more difficult and most people will not find it as easy as taking a few on-line tests before going for the actual test.>

Even if you don;t plan on getting a radio right away, a couple nights to get your license before the change is money and time well spent.

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